trickness Posted June 1, 2018 Share #1 Posted June 1, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just an observation- I had a 75 APO a couple of years ago and foolishly sold it after not using it for a few months. It was a bit of a hard sell, I know some folks think 75 is a bit too close to 50, and prefer the 90, the 75 is kind of a niche lens in the lineup. I bought mine used for about 2300 and sold it for about 2200 USD. I’ve really missed the 75 and have been looking around for a good used copy of this lens for a while. Haven’t seen any used copies come up for anything less than about $3000, and most of the recent online chatter about the 75 is much more reverential in tone than a couple of years ago. I wonder if generally people have started to realize how great this lens is, Or if there is some reason why there are less of them on the secondary market. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 1, 2018 Posted June 1, 2018 Hi trickness, Take a look here Did the 75 APO suddenly get “popular”?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Exodies Posted June 1, 2018 Share #2 Posted June 1, 2018 I’m surprised. Given how lovely the 75 Noctilux is I would expect everyone to sell his inferior lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickness Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #3 Posted June 1, 2018 I’m surprised. Given how lovely the 75 Noctilux is I would expect everyone to sell his inferior lens. LOL you mean sell four of them so you can afford the Nocti. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mctuomey Posted June 1, 2018 Share #4 Posted June 1, 2018 well, I've had mine for a decade and it's one of three M lenses I would have trouble letting go. In the U.S. Leica Store Miami usually has one or two well under US$3,000. Nocti 75 may be breath-taking, but its cost is heart-stopping for me. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickness Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #5 Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) well, I've had mine for a decade and it's one of three M lenses I would have trouble letting go. In the U.S. Leica Store Miami usually has one or two well under US$3,000. Nocti 75 may be breath-taking, but its cost is heart-stopping for me. Thx for the tip on Miami! (Update: just checked their website and they have one that’s a little rough for 2800! Ouch.) Really hoping I can find one at a reasonable price. It’s funny but the reviews I’ve read online of the 75 Nocti seem kind of mixed. Which I guess is similar to reviews of the 50 Noctilux. It’s obviously a specialty lens and it would be nice to have one but yeah the price and the weight are challenging. Edited June 1, 2018 by trickness Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 1, 2018 Share #6 Posted June 1, 2018 The M 75/2 apo was said to be difficult to focus on M cameras but it is not a problem on mirrorless cameras anymore. Not sure that it is the reason though. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregm61 Posted June 1, 2018 Share #7 Posted June 1, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a copy of the 75mm f2 APO I picked up second-hand, virtually mint but with no box, pouch, etc, and it cost me $2,000. That's the key.....find one where they're just selling the lens. Amazing how much having a "complete" setup elevates the cost. I have a love/hate relationship with it. It can be frustrating for me to get accurately focused shots at close to moderate distances at f2, to the extent I wound up purchasing a brand-new 75mm f2.4 Summarit after sending the APO to DAG, only to have him check it out and tell me it's perfectly within factory tolerances. The Summarit is sharp as a tack and I can nail the focus wide open at any distance, virtually 100% of the time using either my M262 or M-P240. Heck, the first few days I've owned the 135mm f3.4 APO Telyt I've had much better luck shooting it wide open at moderate distances than I've ever been able to consistently achieve with the 75mm f2 APO. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickness Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share #8 Posted June 1, 2018 The M 75/2 apo was said to be difficult to focus on M cameras but it is not a problem on mirrorless cameras anymore. Not sure that it is the reason though. Funny you should mention that. I have an SL now and that’s when I’m going to mount it up to; although I didn’t find it hard to focus it on my MP240. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted June 1, 2018 Share #9 Posted June 1, 2018 I have a copy of the 75mm f2 APO I picked up second-hand, virtually mint but with no box, pouch, etc, and it cost me $2,000. That's the key.....find one where they're just selling the lens. Amazing how much having a "complete" setup elevates the cost. <snip> Aren’t boxless pouchless lenses stolen goods? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onasj Posted June 1, 2018 Share #10 Posted June 1, 2018 Two new copies of a late-2017-made 75 APO I tested using a Lens Align II in my local Leica store BOTH front focused substantially (~1.3-1.5 cm front focused at 0.7 meters--more than enough to miss portrait focus at f/2) with both the store's M10 and my M10. A search of this forum suggests that this problem is common, leading me to wonder if a batch of 75 APOs were incorrectly calibrated at the factory, which could explain some of the difficulties focusing it. Live view focusing revealed the expected outstanding sharpness of the 75 APO wide open. I tested three new copies of the 75/2.4 at the same visit and all three focused spot-on with both the store's M10 and my M10, so the summaries apparently do not suffer from this issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereken Posted June 3, 2018 Share #11 Posted June 3, 2018 Heads up: BHPhoto has a used one for $2199 right now, condition 8. Focusing issues might be related to the focal length, a 75mm has a much shallower DOF than 50mm. Didn't Leica say they made the new 75mm Noctilux F1.25 because F0.95 would be mathematically impossible to focus with a rangefinder? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onasj Posted June 3, 2018 Share #12 Posted June 3, 2018 Thx for the tip on Miami! (Update: just checked their website and they have one that’s a little rough for 2800! Ouch.) Really hoping I can find one at a reasonable price. It’s funny but the reviews I’ve read online of the 75 Nocti seem kind of mixed. Which I guess is similar to reviews of the 50 Noctilux. It’s obviously a specialty lens and it would be nice to have one but yeah the price and the weight are challenging. I have extensively used the 75 noct and it is optically about as perfect as one is likely to see in a modern lens. The only noticeable aberration is some CA at very large apertures. The main downsides of the 75 noct are the price, massive size, and massive weight; the latter two I suspect will be at odds with the purchasing and shooting ethos of many M users. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibramr Posted June 3, 2018 Share #13 Posted June 3, 2018 Just an observation- I had a 75 APO a couple of years ago and foolishly sold it after not using it for a few months. ....edited....... I wonder if generally people have started to realize how great this lens is, Or if there is some reason why there are less of them on the secondary market. Possibly so. And my theory is that the reasonably priced 75mm Summarit introduced this focal length to much wider base of users. As many of those users became comfortable with this focal length, the logical step for many was to acquire the APO, hence, the increase in demand and price. At least, this is my experience. Good luck in the hunt for a good sample. Regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 3, 2018 Share #14 Posted June 3, 2018 Two new copies of a late-2017-made 75 APO I tested using a Lens Align II in my local Leica store BOTH front focused substantially (~1.3-1.5 cm front focused at 0.7 meters--more than enough to miss portrait focus at f/2) with both the store's M10 and my M10. A search of this forum suggests that this problem is common, leading me to wonder if a batch of 75 APOs were incorrectly calibrated at the factory, which could explain some of the difficulties focusing it. Live view focusing revealed the expected outstanding sharpness of the 75 APO wide open. I tested three new copies of the 75/2.4 at the same visit and all three focused spot-on with both the store's M10 and my M10, so the summaries apparently do not suffer from this issue. It's not just "a batch." I've had 75 APO-Summicrons on and off throughout its 13-year existence, and lenses from any of that time period can show problems. Not just focus consistency (and I've had samples that back-focus at infinity and front-focus at 0.7 meters!) but also curvature of field and/or strong color fringing. It has to do, I am convinced, with the floating element mechanics getting out of whack under normal use - which means the optical formula is no longer what Peter Karbe designed. That was Leica's first attempt at a lens that long and that fast with an FLE, and following a design goal to make it really small and light(ish), they cut some corners in the sizing of the FLE mounting and threading for movement. (As well as other things that don't usually cause problems, such as the aperture ring slightly overlapping the focus ring at infinity for compactness.) It is - not robust. You will note Leica has never tried to follow up with a 90 or 135 with FLE - and the 75 Nocti has much more robust construction in the FLE mounting structure (barrels and helices). The Summarits (f/2.4-2.5) don't use an FLE, and are more reliable, at the cost of a very small degradation in close-up performance and non-APO color fringing. The 75 'cron APO is a wonderful device - when it is working right. _____________________ As to the original question, I see a certain large NYC mail-order store is currently listing THREE used 75 ASMAs. One at $2199 (condition 8 - and probably not 6-bit coded). Given that a new one is now $3999, that is "half-price." 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay968 Posted June 4, 2018 Share #15 Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) In my opinion, the 75 APO is either an overrated lens, there is some bad quality control in its manufacture, or the floating element is problematic. I have owned 3 of them and was never really satisfied with any of them. I did a very thorough test on my M10 against the Fuji 50mm F2 on an XT-2 and found that the Fuji was the noticeably sharper lens even when I used the EVF with the Leica. I've also tested the 75 against my 50 Summicron (non APO) and found the 50 sharper as well. I've also noticed though that the 75 can be very good at times, and the only thing I can figure out is that it depends a lot on just what distance you are shooting at. I think this supports the notion that the floating element is difficult to keep adjusted properly. It's a shame because when the 75 is right on, it's gorgeous. Edited June 4, 2018 by jay968 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 4, 2018 Share #16 Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) I would just add - on the original question - that I've noticed over 17 years of looking for Leica lenses, that that availability of a particular used lens (focal length, aperture, version) usually follows a "random walk" distribution. Which does not mean the number available stays the same, but can vary substantially (around a mean) over time. Yet with no particular cause except random chance. Below is a chart of random activity - flipping a coin 30 times. "Heads" moves the line up one step, and "tails" moves it down one step. You can get substantial peaks - or valleys (a drought of 75 Summicrons) - even in an activity that should "average out" to 50/50. Sometimes there are 5-6 used 50 Summiluxes available from various sources, and sometimes (usually just when I'm thinking of buying one ) they all seem to vanish off the market for months at a time. But it is not the universe out to get me - it is just random sampling. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 4, 2018 by adan 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/285175-did-the-75-apo-suddenly-get-%E2%80%9Cpopular%E2%80%9D/?do=findComment&comment=3531178'>More sharing options...
easy_action Posted June 4, 2018 Share #17 Posted June 4, 2018 But it is not the universe out to get me - it is just random sampling. And particularly evident to the 'sampler' when there are a relatively small number of articles in the system. Thank you for your explanation - I feel this effect is often under appreciated (but perhaps not among this select audience!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted June 4, 2018 Share #18 Posted June 4, 2018 I also like the 75mm focal length quite a bit, but also find it not easy to focus. The 75 Summicron in my experience is very sharp, offers a good bokeh, very good color, and a short close focusing distance (which I find the main advantage over the Summarit). And its nice compact size. For some reason I also had the feeling that the 75 Summarit is somewhat easier to hit focus, maybe it also hess a less obvious transition between sharp focal plain and the background. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregm61 Posted June 4, 2018 Share #19 Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) The last couple of weeks, now that I have an M-P240 in-hand, I've been trying my 75mm f2 APO again. It seems much better "in-tune" with this camera's rangefinder at infinity. Better yet, I started using the Olympus VF-2 finder I purchased 6 years ago now (NEVER thought I'd be using this gadget again, much less with a Leica camera) to use with a Pen E-P3 and seem to be able to just nail anything I want to focus at f2 and any distance, not to mention how well it works when using the 135mm f3.4 APO Telyt (one awesomely sharp lens) and for better framing and leveling when using the 21 or 18mm Super Elmars. I'm feeling much better at this point about my 75mm f2 APO and glad I've just held on to it. One thing I do need to do now though, is buy a third battery. I think I'm going to need it the more I use this EVF, but it certainly enhances the M system experience. Edited June 4, 2018 by Gregm61 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
me111 Posted June 4, 2018 Share #20 Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) Hi everybody, I've been reading here for a while, and this is my first post. I think I have some thoughts to contribute; not about why it is expensive nowadays, though. I have a love-hate relationship with this lens too. Many times I think about selling it, but when I take it out for the farewell shooting, I change my mind. I'm sure I will have the thought of selling it again because it is reoccurring, and one day, I may be able to sell it for real. The love: its images are sharp and at a wide aperture, they always (I say always) clearly exhibit 3-dimensional planes of focus; it is super light and small; its short focus throw does not bother me much although I shoot street. The hate: it's bad at strong highlights. When the condition is right, it produces some glow (lens flare,) not enough to be a beautiful glow like the ones we see in some old glasses but enough to blur/blow the highlight details; 75mm is usually too tight for my preference; and I have 50 lux asph and I think it is too similar in terms of character minus 3d-pop, and lux is the keeper. This image below is here to demonstrate my claim about the 3d-pop. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited June 4, 2018 by me111 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/285175-did-the-75-apo-suddenly-get-%E2%80%9Cpopular%E2%80%9D/?do=findComment&comment=3531609'>More sharing options...
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