5cm Summar with very stiff Telescoping. Is there a fix?

[Hello]

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I just acquired an LTM 5cm Summar lens for free. So far a good investment. The glass has the requisite haze and swirly scratches (why is it always swirly?) The focus is somewhat stiff  but the aperture is smooth. The biggest issue is the extension is virtually impossible to do. So much friction. I was considering getting it CLA'd as the price is right and after a CLA it should be a nice little lens in the line-up. My biggest concern is that the collapsible tube having that much friction isn't something that can be easily fixed. Is this a possible repair? Or are the tolerances of the tube and focus mechanism already what they are and just exceedingly tight? 

[a.noctilux]

Swirly scratches was created to give swirly bokeh  .

 

Not really, may I think that was the ancient owner(s) cleaned the lens with "hankerchief or something not gentle to optics" and the scratched was formed from hard fabric fibers.

 

I think that a CLA would not remove "deep scratches", but may repair those mechanical flaws.

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[Reini]

It is probably a lot of dirt in the mechanics. I also got a Summar recently. It was also very difficult to move.

I completely disassembled the lens and rinsed all moving parts with benzine. It is very easy to turn and pull now.

If you can not do it yourself then send it to a service.

The lenses were cleared of dust, fog and cleaned with alcohol.

These lenses have a soft glass. The large glass is unfortunately very susceptible to damage, especially if no filter is used.

Unfortunately, the front lens of my lens is also scratched.
I can not say what the picture quality is at the moment.

[Hello]

Swirly scratches was created to give swirly bokeh  .

 

Not really, may I think that was the ancient owner(s) cleaned the lens with "hankerchief or something not gentle to optics" and the scratched was formed from hard fabric fibers.

 

I think that a CLA would not remove "deep scratches", but may repair those mechanical flaws.

 

Yeah, I'm not concerned about the scratches. I'm concerned about the lens extension being able to be addressed in a repair as it seems like a tolerance issue and the exterior of the lens barrel and focus mechanism being on the outside of the internal mechanics means a greasing of it isn't quite possible.

[Hello]

It is probably a lot of dirt in the mechanics. I also got a Summar recently. It was also very difficult to move.

I completely disassembled the lens and rinsed all moving parts with benzine. It is very easy to turn and pull now.

If you can not do it yourself then send it to a service.

 

The lenses were cleared of dust, fog and cleaned with alcohol.

 

These lenses have a soft glass. The large glass is unfortunately very susceptible to damage, especially if no filter is used.

 

Unfortunately, the front lens of my lens is also scratched.

I can not say what the picture quality is at the moment.

Thanks for the info. Based on that it seems a good CLA can fix this issue. I have a few other lenses in need of a good CLA so I'll bundle this one in as well. 

[earleygallery]

There is a link on the historical section showing how to partially dismantle a Summar lens. You could try a very light application of grease on the barrel first though and see if that helps (very light!).

 

Haze can be cleaned but if the front element is scratched then I'd determine just how useable the lens is before spending money on a CLA.

 

The marks are most likely cleaning marks accumulated over the many years the lens has been around for (which is also why they're swirly marks). You won't want to shoot against the light with it but it might be OK otherwise, it all depends on how badly marked and hazy it is. At the very least you have a special effect lens for flattering portraits!

[willeica]

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I have 11 collapsible Summars and the degree of stiffness in the collapsing mechanism varies quite a bit. The same applies to the even greater number of collapsible 50mm Elmars in my collection. The important issue is that the lens is fully extended to ensure proper focus. One typical problem is that while the barrel extends the final twist to lock the lens is difficult. With the Summar there is an arrow around the barrel which shows the direction to twist and when you can see this arrow the lens is fully extended. The stiffness problems are often caused by accumulated grease, which can be dealt with easily. Wear inside the barrel can also cause issues such as looseness and catching when extension is attempted. This is less easily dealt with.

 

The old myth was that photographers used their (compulsory) ties to clean their lenses leading to circular swirly marks. In general, the glass in my Summar collection is very good. If you can extend the Summar fully, you can test its glass lenses by a few shots on a digital M using an adapter. 

 

William

[Hello]

I have 11 collapsible Summars and the degree of stiffness in the collapsing mechanism varies quite a bit. The same applies to the even greater number of collapsible 50mm Elmars in my collection. The important issue is that the lens is fully extended to ensure proper focus. One typical problem is that while the barrel extends the final twist to lock the lens is difficult. With the Summar there is an arrow around the barrel which shows the direction to twist and when you can see this arrow the lens is fully extended. The stiffness problems are often caused by accumulated grease, which can be dealt with easily. Wear inside the barrel can also cause issues such as looseness and catching when extension is attempted. This is less easily dealt with.

 

The old myth was that photographers used their (compulsory) ties to clean their lenses leading to circular swirly marks. In general, the glass in my Summar collection is very good. If you can extend the Summar fully, you can test its glass lenses by a few shots on a digital M using an adapter. 

 

William

 

I was able to get it fully extended and locked once I figured out the alignment. I'll run some test shots on it with my M240. I've been putting off getting an adapter but I think it's time to do it. Any good recommendations for one? I have a few 50mm lenses and a 35mm. Is there different adapters for different focal lengths?

[Reini]

It would be possible to show in picture with scratched lens?
And then sample pictures?

[TomB_tx]

I was able to get it fully extended and locked once I figured out the alignment. I'll run some test shots on it with my M240. I've been putting off getting an adapter but I think it's time to do it. Any good recommendations for one? I have a few 50mm lenses and a 35mm. Is there different adapters for different focal lengths?

Yes - the adapter bayonet is keyed to bring up the correct frames in the VF. There are a number of 3rd party adapters available that can also be coded for the M240.

[mickjazz]

@Hello

 

Many of the Leica retractable lenses can get very hard to move.

 

What I always try first is to clean off the barrel assuming you can get to it. Even collapsed you can usually clean the lower part.

 

Then I use just a couple drops total around the perimeter of the barrel with an oil known as liquid bearings. Bought it on the bay site about $6. I've had it for years.

 

In most cases the few drops of oil is adequate for reasonably easy extension of the barrel

[Reini]

Is only a temporary solution.
You often see enough deep scratches on the tube caused by sand.
Only get that out with disassembled.

[jerzy]

Hello was asking for temporary solution and method derscribed by mickjazz is such one. But Reini you are fully correct about the sand and scratching. There is a stripe of felt between mount and barrell, it accumulates dust, applying some grease over the tube might help for a short time but at the end it needs to be dissassembled and cleaned, this is included in in CLA. If however you want to clean felt only this is not so complicated. Shortly: with 1mm flat screwdriver remove the screw securing the black arresting ring at the end of barrel and unscrew it. You may then pull of the barrel, remove the felt and wash it out properly. Sounds easy and usually it is. 

But: before removing black ring make a scratch on it showing the position of the hole on the barrel. There is a mark on the ring where the screw fits and you will see it through the hole when screwing on but I have seen on many Summars more than one mark. This might not be very critical but position of arresting ring has impact on the distance between the optics and film plane. After washing out the felt needs to be glued to the mount. When glueing press it constantly with your fingers until glue dries. After washing out felt becames a bit thicker and you will have difficulties to insert the barrel unless you have a tool (conical tube inserted into barrel).

Should you wish to clean your lens have a look on other positings in this section as earlygallery noted

[Hello]

This recent thread : https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/283066-summar-cla/ is very helpful. Because it was free, I mat tackle this one myself for fun. Any suggestions on a good grease to use?

[wlaidlaw]

Yes - the adapter bayonet is keyed to bring up the correct frames in the VF. There are a number of 3rd party adapters available that can also be coded for the M240.

 

I have tried all different makes of L39 to M adapter rings over the years. With film cameras they all pretty much work but if you measure the cheap Fleabay oriental models, you may find the faces are not dead parallel and the thickness is not exactly 1.00mm, both of which are essential. With the M240 generation cameras and the L adapter M on the CL/T/SL, all with CMOS sensors, if the LED coding detectors do not detect the presence of a lens, you will get the "no lens detected" message and live view will not be available or on the SL, T or CL, nothing will work. The only adapter rings I have found that are 100% correctly dimensioned and never give the "no lens detected message", are RayQual ones. I have a feeling they may be sold in the USA under another brand name. They are not cheap at around £40/$50 each. They are black anodised and have a white painted recess, into which you can mark codings with a Pentel Sharpie pen. 

 

Wilson