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Leica CM / ML?/ New Leica Mirrorless Announcement


Jeff S

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All these speculations!  Such speculations always occur followed by disappointments when the actual products are announced … products which have been in development for many, many months and which nobody can change at the last minute.

 

Reminds me of gamblers convincing themselves that a certain horse will definitely win several weeks prior to the actual race … but what an anti-climax and bad feelings when the crystal ball is proved wrong. 

 

Surely it's better to be patient and just wait for the official announcements rather than build up false hopes.

 

Que sera, sera. 

 

dunk  

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I don't see much build quality differences between CL and SL, except for weathersealing. If the new camera is at the same level as the Q and CL, there will be very few complaints.

 

 

My bad, I'm actually referring to how they fee, but I haven't done any real world tests on their endurance. I'm sure both can be equally practical. They just feel absolutely differently, in my opinion. Only by how they feel to be made, SL is probably the best "how well I feel it's made" camera in the world. CL on the other hand - well made but plasticky. It feels like I couldn't destroy SL if I wanted to and that I could destroy CL if I tried. I didn't try any of those insanities btw ;) They could be both equally well made. I just "feel" like SL is much, much more sturdy (but maybe I simply assume that heavier = better) 

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Surely the "cheaper one" could be without weather resistance, with worseEVF and worse body quality (built like CL, not like SL). But I really hope they wouldn't because those are SLs (almost only) advantages over competition (let's say A7 III).

But stuff like LocalHero suggested, "one card only, smaller battery, smaller rear screen, no cable connectors" - IMO please go for it to lower the price ;) 

 

Have you got any - informed - idea of what those features actually cost? I'd guess that it could actually be less expensive for Leica to use the same EVF, screen and battery for example rather than the cost of buying in additional components of different specs and quite likely different manufacturers.

 

How much cheaper does the ?? have to be compare to an SL, assuming it was pared down in features and build quality? I doubt a 5% or 10% difference would mean much to the typical Leica buyer. The lenses are still going to cost a fortune whatever.

 

What happened to the suggested partnership between Leica and Zenit? There was talk of a Zenit version of the SL. Maybe the new camera is a joint venture product which would allow for some more economies of scale.........

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Have you got any - informed - idea of what those features actually cost? I'd guess that it could actually be less expensive for Leica to use the same EVF, screen and battery for example rather than the cost of buying in additional components of different specs and quite likely different manufacturers.

 

How much cheaper does the ?? have to be compare to an SL, assuming it was pared down in features and build quality? I doubt a 5% or 10% difference would mean much to the typical Leica buyer. The lenses are still going to cost a fortune whatever.

 

What happened to the suggested partnership between Leica and Zenit? There was talk of a Zenit version of the SL. Maybe the new camera is a joint venture product which would allow for some more economies of scale.........

 

 

Absolutely no idea, but I hope you're right on the EVF! But, the "new" CL has worse EVF than SL, probably because of costs? 

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An interesting rumour. We shall have to see what if anything appears. 
For my two cents, the S and SL systems  are too large and heavy for some applications while excellent in studio (where I use them).
A smaller, perhaps M sized full frame L mount body would be very appealing and the new and soon to arrive Summicron L lenses make much more sense to be able to use on that as well as the CL.

Edited by hoppyman
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I think it is (technical) time now for a ML. Means M10 is so most advanced M = Mechanical Messbecher (Rangefinder) with M Mount. Time now for L based Ragender with SL style  EVF, L-Bajonet but M-(classic) style fonctions, except zoom lenses and autofocus support.

TL for Young urban user

CL for Nostalic user

ML for modern M user

SL for professional user

 

L-Bajonet will replace M iin a mid term vision

Am I the only 65 year old who would like a TL, but with the CL's performance and EVF, as a small camera?

And am I the only amateur who values the performance standards and functionality of the SL?

 

OTOH, I would really like to see a defence of the M from a modern, non-nostalgic standpoint. Most people here defend it from a nostalgic standpoint ("slow, deliberate photography") rather than as the best tool available for fast contemporary photography. If we had more of the latter it might survive. If it is seen as the only viable digital alternative to a film M, then it is heading for the shredder. My perspective is that it still has a place, but Leica needs to be told that it is not just for the old brigade, and it should be developed accordingly*.

 

I disagree with the last point: the L bayonet has already replaced the M (as Leica's tech for the future).

 

* Oh, in case you were asking, that means replace all brass with alloy, get rid of that forking baseplate, make it weatherproof, add video back in, make it start up instantly from sleep, and give it a silent shutter. FFS, what were they thinking with the M10? A dead end?

 

 

This post is after two bottles of red wine in Madrid, so my normal cautious style has slipped a bit.

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It is quite normal that price is determined by feature set rather than component cost, just have a look at the model policy of car makers... It is certainly not something to get upset about, the factory decides the price, the customer to buy, or not.

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All these speculations!  Such speculations always occur followed by disappointments when the actual products are announced … products which have been in development for many, many months and which nobody can change at the last minute.

 

Reminds me of gamblers convincing themselves that a certain horse will definitely win several weeks prior to the actual race … but what an anti-climax and bad feelings when the crystal ball is proved wrong. 

 

Surely it's better to be patient and just wait for the official announcements rather than build up false hopes.

 

Que sera, sera. 

 

dunk  

 

totally agree, why waste time with speculations when there are 99.99% certain predictions readily available on the forum ….

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I just hope this FF cammera comes with a line-up of L-mount lenses that are smaller than the SL lenses

I think the clue there is from the new Summicron L mount lenses, two released and two coming. A stop slower than the earlier Summilux but much smaller, lighter and faster to focus too.

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If this new camera is a bridge between CL and SL it should really allow to take 24MP pictures with both APS-C and FF lenses, shouldn't it?

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If it is a full-frame sensor, an APS-C lens can only produce a cropped image. It would require an 48 MP  -either real MPs or tricked ones- sensor to produce a 24 MP file. 

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Am I the only 65 year old who would like a TL, but with the CL's performance and EVF, as a small camera?

And am I the only amateur who values the performance standards and functionality of the SL?

 

OTOH, I would really like to see a defence of the M from a modern, non-nostalgic standpoint. Most people here defend it from a nostalgic standpoint ("slow, deliberate photography") rather than as the best tool available for fast contemporary photography. If we had more of the latter it might survive. If it is seen as the only viable digital alternative to a film M, then it is heading for the shredder. My perspective is that it still has a place, but Leica needs to be told that it is not just for the old brigade, and it should be developed accordingly*.

 

I disagree with the last point: the L bayonet has already replaced the M (as Leica's tech for the future).

 

* Oh, in case you were asking, that means replace all brass with alloy, get rid of that forking baseplate, make it weatherproof, add video back in, make it start up instantly from sleep, and give it a silent shutter. FFS, what were they thinking with the M10? A dead end?

 

 

This post is after two bottles of red wine in Madrid, so my normal cautious style has slipped a bit.

If it takes two bottles of wine to produce a sensible post like this, I'm all for it. :lol:

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Smaller and lighter AF FF L-mount lenses would be appreciated by most people I believe.

 

I like the SL body though.  I really wouldn't want to lose any functionality there and I don't feel the body itself is too heavy, so Leica would need to come up with something pretty innovative to get my attention.

 

Also, I really don't need 3 L-mount bodies, so If I were to buy the new body either the CL or the SL would need to go.  

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Anxiously waiting for more info to decide to place a first day order... hopefully will be comparable if not better than Sony A7RIII. I found the CL to be good but not better than even my 4 year old A7R. And if I order hope I can get it in time for September travels.

Edited by tonyniev
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