Leica CM / ML?/ New Leica Mirrorless Announcement

[cp995]

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The Q lens is an integrated design with the sensor, it does not transpose 1:1 to a removable lens.

 

Yes! Same situation at Sony and the RX1 Series 2/35mm lens.

[jonatdonuts]

Yes, of course, but was speculating on the development of a range of compact full frame lenses similar to the size of the Q in the future. Though that would seem counterintuitive given the imminent release of the Q2 and the current SL range being huuuge. 

 

The Q lens is an integrated design with the sensor, it does not transpose 1:1 to a removable lens.

Edited May 29, 2018 by jonatdonuts

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[jonatdonuts]

I shoot in busy, crowded Asian markets mostly, so either the camera is bumping into things or I am fiddling with it myself. I tried to shoot it manually, but once the top button is pressed (accidentally) it enters into a new mode, which disorientates me. I spend a few seconds switching it back to manual and then figuring out what setting I wanted it at. I found the wheels a little too easy to move too. 

 

I am sure that I would get used to it after a while, and others clearly have bonded with it quickly, but it just wasn't a camera I was particularly drawn too when I've been spoilt with the simplicity of the M and the X. With those cameras you know exactly what settings the camera is at even when it's switched off. 

 

Image quality was wonderful, however. If only there were a greater selection of faster lenses, which I'm sure will come in the future. 

 

 

I wonder how you manage to do that.

We all play around with camera settings as circumstances require, but the trick is to reset quickly.

I have my preferred settings under a standard user profile and it takes me about one second to activate it without taking the camera off my eye, by putting user profiles under the right wheel button as a press-hold item.

 

If your dials are all over the place, that is because you programmed them that way. 

 

My right wheel:

 

Focusing

Focus Mode

AF Mode

Focus Peaking

ISO

Flash settings

User Profile.

 

Normally I keep it on Focus Mode or ISO, depending on what I am doing.

 

But you can also make some user profiles and keep the wheel button on user profile for lightning-fast switching.

 

BTW, my Fn button is:

 

Drive Mode

Focusing

Focus mode

Focus Peaking

Exposure metering

Exposure Compensation

User Profile

EVF-LCD

 

Of which I only use EVF-LCD, I must confess. .

 

 

It is just a case of setting the camera up properly to work to your wishes. 

CameraStore obviously did not go to the trouble of figuring out how the camera works - unforgivable for a serious reviewer, really, with such a clearly-designed interface.

Edited May 29, 2018 by jonatdonuts

[jaapv]

No, the CL  doesn't enter into a new mode when just pressed. You need to turn the wheel within a few seconds to do that. As a matter of fact I found the X1 and X2 somewhat more disconcerting as I was always resetting the wheels when taking them out of my pocket.

[jonatdonuts]

By the way, original Leica CM from 2003. It's so cute I want to pinch its little face!

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[earleygallery]

I don't understand what the difference will be between the SL and the rumoured new 'CM' - both FF mirrorless bodies.

 

I'm sure that the SL could have been designed to be more compact but of course it has to also balance with the size of FF AF lenses, so you wouldn't want it to be that much smaller.

 

If they're aiming this new camera at M users then wouldn't it make more sense for Leica to release a FF M mount mirrorless instead?

 

OTOH maybe the new camera is an upgraded M7 !!

[luigi bertolotti]

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I don't understand what the difference will be between the SL and the rumoured new 'CM' - both FF mirrorless bodies.

 

...

 

Probably, plainly said, they have realized that SL is too costly.. so instead of a rough lowering of its price (which is always badly received by market) they prefer to make a slightly different version… same basic specs with some marginal minus… new style… and a lower price. Correct move around the L Mount line… M Mount it's all another world and market.  

[Wojtek]

If CM/ML would be a FF L-mount smaller SL and -which I really hope- IF it will be better than SL (or even not worse in any way), than for me it's a deal breaker. Here's what we'll have then:

 

Full frame, 

great new sensor,

small body,

great performance,

reliability, 

world class build quality,

world class optics (with small-ish 75/90 SL-crons and possibly some more coming along with CM/ML), 

best in the world menus and handling.

 

There is no camera on the market which does it all. Even Sony A7 III. Fujis are APS-C, Sonys lack build quality and handling. 

Sure if CM/ML will be better and smaller than SL, no one will buy the SL. But even if there is no CM/ML - who will buy SL today anyway? I think most potential SL buyers are waiting for SL2 anyways. And when SL2 comes out, it will be probably ~50mp, so it will be a logical step above CM/ML.

I really hope it turns out true. I hope it will be a "smaller SL" (which is a PRO mirrorless from Leica), not an "entry level full frame" (smaller SL lacking some features). I'll be happy to start saving a lot of money for it.

 

Also, as Luigi said, it's very possible it will be a smaller and cheaper SL (which means it will lack some features). That could be interesting as well! But I think it's risky in an A7 III era where Leica can't compete on price, but absolutely can (and IMO should) compete on build quality, lens quality, and handling.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Wojtek

[earleygallery]

Also, as Luigi said, it's very possible it will be a smaller and cheaper SL (which means it will lack some features). That could be interesting as well! But I think it's risky in an A7 III era where Leica can't compete on price, but absolutely can (and IMO should) compete on build quality, lens quality, and handling.

 

What features do you think they will drop to account for the lower price, if this is correct?

[Mr.Q]

If the rumored CM comes with the SL's EVF I'm sold. If not, meh.

[Jeff S]

My guess is it will be a total revolution in M cameras. Full frame, optical rangefinder, M mount, 24 M pixels with a fixed baseplate.

Unless there are two major June announcements, expect an L mount. Dr. Kaufmann said clearly in the recent Luminous Landscape video interview with Kevin Raber (apparently conducted late 2017) that we would learn something about potential for the L mount this June.

 

As a separate point, he said that the current SL design was “brutal.... like with an axe”, and that the next one would be more “elegant”.

 

Jeff

[MarkP]

 

 

My guess is it will be a total revolution in M cameras. Full frame, optical rangefinder, M mount, 24 M pixels with a fixed baseplate.

 

CL

SL

 

CM? The nomenclature doesn't fit with an L-mount camera.

 

Not that some of Leica's nomenclature makes sense regardless.

[frame-it]

http://sonyaddict.com/2018/05/28/sony-announced-a-new-5-6-million-dot-evf-that-refreshes-at-240fps/

 

 

 

If the rumored CM comes with the SL's EVF I'm sold. If not, meh.

[jonatdonuts]

Very true. Today's M lineup is complete with optically perfect primes. The fact that these lenses can resolve upwards of 48MP make them future proof for a good number of years, though given their quality and build, they could probably satisfy for several more lifetimes. 

 

Leica's heritage was built on quality in small packages - let's see if they can find a way to continue this when it comes to the new L lenses. If they could find a way to develop Q-sized fast primes, ideally with the mechanical aperture ring for old times' sake, then it's an instant winner. These kind of lenses would give Leica a unique, practical, and well sought after advantage amongst the mirrorless competition. 

 

The size of that 35mm 1.4 zeiss for the Sony FF is just too brutal for candid street...

 

 

Full support for the latter; the L-mount is the new M-mount for Leica. Not implying that the M-mount is dead, but that future M-developments are, by construction, limited. That being said, I still love to use manual lenses, whether on M, CL or SL.

Edited May 29, 2018 by jonatdonuts

[LocalHero1953]

What features do you think they will drop to account for the lower price, if this is correct?

No weatherproofing, smaller EVF, one card only, smaller battery, smaller rear screen, no cable connectors. And the lenses would not have IS.

And a smaller body might have less processing power in order to help heat dissipation, with knock on impacts on AF speed etc.

I would be disappointed if any new body did not have weather sealing, and I find the IS lenses for the SL extremely valuable.

[frame-it]

probably a CL + TL2 merged into one beastie..with a stronger mount for larger lenses..and a more refined look.

[toyfel]

Same size mount as the SL and TL lenses so unlikely to be smaller. 

 

dunk 

 

We already know it's possible by virtue of SL+adapter+M-lenses.

[andybarton]

Am I the only one who now finds Leica's various offerings very confusing? To be further complicated by yet another body.

 

Perhaps it's because I don't have the money to spend on a CL, CM, SL, S, T, TL2, Q or anything else, but if I did, I might worry that all these different cameras show a scatter-gun approach to camera development.

 

I know that some of them have the same lens mount, but for the life of me I couldn't tell you which ones and whether the lenses work properly on more than one body.

 

You know where you are with an M.

[dkCambridgeshire]

We already know it's possible by virtue of SL+adapter+M-lenses.

 

 

But the SL/TL to M  adapter (i.e. the M adapter T) has the same size SL/TL rear mount … and the M lenses do not have any auto diaphragm or autofocus. Any new SL/TL lenses will have AF and auto diaphragm functions which need more than a little space within the lens mount. 

 

dunk 

Edited May 29, 2018 by dkCambridgeshire

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[andybarton]

Do all SL lenses work on TLs, without problems, and vice versa?