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Leica Black Paint M3 identification


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Hi every one.

 

New around here. I have been shopping for a M3 for a while.
I was surprise to see the following model at an affordable price.
I know their is re-painted black M3 but the serial number on the top is in the range of the original black+chrom-ds according to the following list:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/M3

700001* 710000* Leica M3 (black+chrom-ds) 1954 10000*

Does it looks legit to you?
What price would be fair for this model in "working order" but no CL history.

Any tips will be appreciated.

Sorry if I posted this in wrong section or I should follow some rules I'm not aware yet.

 

Seb

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Production lots of black M3's started at 959401. Black M3's with lower serial numbers, are: a post production repaint of an original chrome finished camera, more frequent, or a one-off result of a special order that the factory accommodated, very less frequent.  Factory records if available, would be the most positive method to confirm originality.

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For my 2 cents it's a crude fake/repaint. Instead of brass chrome is showing through wear on the the accessory shoe, chrome is showing through worn paint on the rewind lever, chrome is showing from chips on the strap lugs, I could go on........

Edited by 250swb
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For my 2 cents it's a crude fake/repaint. Instead of brass chrome is showing through wear on the the accessory shoe, chrome is showing through worn paint on the rewind lever, chrome is showing from chips on the strap lugs, I could go on........

 

Yeah, my thoughts as well. Probably why it's priced reasonably.

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Just a former collector advice : never heard of a genuine black M3 serialled below 900000, but Leitz confirmed that the 959401 figure was wrong. I had personally two black M3 nº911382 and 917901, both dual stroke, with black frame counter and three black levers, triangular strap lugs and both certified by Leitz on my special request. My third black paint M3 was a silver chrome professionally painted : it had serial 1045116 and had dual stroke.

 

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Yes, rather primitive repainted. Interesting is however that this is an early M3. Screws on top cover, iso scale backdoor, etc indicate SN below 800 000. And, first photo looks like it is cornered top cover. If this is really cornered than it is below 701xxx and definitely worth restoration into original condition (rechroming)

PS my comment relates to the original posting, not from Pecole

Edited by jerzy
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[...] And, first photo looks like it is cornered top cover.

 

OMG! It does look to be a cornered top! I did not know that any of those were released with regular serial numbers.

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Does that put it into prototype land?

Not really, there were cornered and non cornered prototypes. Corned exist as well In very early regular production intermixed with non cornered. When back home in few days I will look into literature with SNs of cornered.

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You never make a mistake when you are happy with what you bought.

As for the repainted black M3 that Seb showed us, I am not so sure it is a cornered one. Isn't just the light falling on the corner giving us that idea? Besides, they are very early, and what anyone be so silly to badly repaint such a body?

Lex

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You never make a mistake when you are happy with what you bought.

As for the repainted black M3 that Seb showed us, I am not so sure it is a cornered one. Isn't just the light falling on the corner giving us that idea? Besides, they are very early, and what anyone be so silly to badly repaint such a body?

Lex

 

The paint looks sufficiently old and is probably close to the age of the camera. Also, I'd guess the "collectibility" factor wasn't important at the time the painting occurred. Of course all of the other hallmarks of the camera are there as previously shown.

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I look forward to our experts concerning the M3 with the right 'corner'. In my limited experience the corner only occurred in prototypes with special 00.. serial numbers. Willing to learn if wrong!

Edited by pico
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This source ( no idea of authority) shows regular production cornered top plate. ...

 

https://legendarycamera.com/leica-m3-chrome-1954#show-block-silver-main-menu

 

All other details look correct for a 7xxxxx serial chrome body. Perhaps it’s a bad repaint over chrome, but so what. It may even be possible to gently remove the paint to reveal original chrome.

 

If it functions and has correct frame rails and pressure plate, I’d buy it in a second at a “reasonable price”.

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To complete information, I have in my archives a series of images originally published by Peter Coeln of a black painted M3 nº779019 (1955) with black painted collapsible Summicron nº1167851. This early model has no frame selection lever (the two other levers are black), and its frame counter is chrome.

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back at home I looked into my info about early M3 with cornered top cover. The listattached  is by far not complete, it includes what I found incidentaly on the web and what I learned from Leicashop.

Generally, cornered top cover may be found under 700800. This was the first production batch. Within 32 canmeras which I found below 700800 the 10 were with cornered top cover.

The only one exception was 701293. However other details of this camera are indicating that it might have been assemblied from the parts belonging to the first production batch.

For convenience, SNs are listed in attached pdf.

Early M3 with cornered top cover.pdf

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