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Problem with SL firmware update 3.2 - automatic Auto Review, not able to deactivate.


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I am experiencing a problem with the 3.2 firmware update. It is showing up in both of my bodies that I have updated to 3.2. There is an automatic freeze-frame auto review after EVERY shot. It is the equivalent of shutter blackout as I can't see my subject for a split second while the auto review flashes in the EVF (and on the LCD) and I shoot action so this is a real problem. Is anyone experiencing this? I don't (and have never had) Auto Review on. It is OFF. I can't re-install the update because camera sees it as already installed. Please advise. Leica: if this is a bug, please correct ASAP, I am a working professional and am severely handicapped because of this.  Many thanks.

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Leica USA is aware of this (when I complained to their regional rep when he was in town a couple weeks ago) and I got the sense that it isn't a "feature." In any event, they relayed it to Germany, where the firmware is written.   For me, it's a real embuggerance. After shooting film for 45 years, I have a pretty good idea whether I got the shot right, and even if I didn't the live view that you get just before tripping the shutter does the job. If I wanted to be a chimp I'd eat bananas and thr

Nope.   It's stupid to make this stuff mandatory. They did it before by changing the way exposure preview works in manual mode. They still haven't fixed the dumb behaviour of exposure preview with a TTL flash. LENR. Leica have a bad habit of making decisions that should be user choices. Too many engineers and not enough photographers.   If I turn auto review off (I do) then I want it OFF. Not off except when Leica say it can't be OFF. Not "well we figured you'd want a dynamic model shoot int

1. In a single pan you keep your finger pressed down (well at least I do) through and after the pan. When the exposure is finished you want to see the subject live to get an idea if you panned properly as it'll be in about the same spot as before the exposure started. This "feature" makes that impossible.   2. I shoot in situations where I mash the shutter. I have done so for 25 years. And I could do so with the SL. So now I need to retrain my behaviour on the SAME camera. I've always done the

Just installed 3.2 and unpacked the 16-35.

 

Yes, holding the shutter keeps the image onscreen.

 

I will have to get used to this as sometimes I would hold the shutter to control camera shake. Otherwise I don’t see it happening accidentally for me.

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Thanks for letting us know. What a terrible idea! Sometimes I wonder whether they actually have any photographers at Leica, when the do daft crap like this.

 

I won't be upgrading. This would drive me insane.

 

Gordon

 

Well it's a great idea as far as I am concerned ..... now I can switch 'auto review' to off permanently 

 

Why would you want to keep your finger pressed on the shutter button anyway, except in Continuous Drive Mode .... ? 

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Frankly I can't see any freeze if I lift my finger off the shutter after shooting.

I was using the SL for portraits yesterday and, although I'd heard this mentioned earlier, I didn't notice anything different.

It freezes if you hold the shutter down - I thought it always did that - happy to be told otherwise, but I can't go back and check - I find it useful. I don't use continuous mode, but if I want to take a sequence of quick shots my finger comes off the shutter immediately.

 

If this was actually happening even when I took my finger off the shutter immediately, I would expect to have spotted all the shots where my model blinked at the wrong moment - but I didn't.

Edited by LocalHero1953
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No, it doesn't happen if you take your finger off the shutter immediately, and when I emphasize a smooth squeeze to avoid camera shake I can see if I avoided the blink after the shot but am not going to shoot again instantly.  I like it.  I turned off auto review long ago.

Edited by scott kirkpatrick
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I won't be upgrading. This would drive me insane.

 

If you are using any of the latest lenses, they continue to add small improvements under the covers.  I can see some in the metadata so there may be other enhancements in 3.2 over 3.1 and 3.0.  The only thing that edges over into the "daft crap" category is ECO power mode, and you can just turn that off and forget it.

 

(so upgrade...)

Edited by scott kirkpatrick
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(so upgrade...)

 

Nope.

 

It's stupid to make this stuff mandatory. They did it before by changing the way exposure preview works in manual mode. They still haven't fixed the dumb behaviour of exposure preview with a TTL flash. LENR. Leica have a bad habit of making decisions that should be user choices. Too many engineers and not enough photographers.

 

If I turn auto review off (I do) then I want it OFF. Not off except when Leica say it can't be OFF. Not "well we figured you'd want a dynamic model shoot interrupted with a preview" Not, "we'll make it impossible to mash the shutter to get the shot". OFF!!!!!

 

I fully accept some people might like this behaviour. But others don't and Leica are daft for removing or changing existing functionality just because they can. There's stuff that actually needs fixing and instead they waste time making changes like this.

 

Gordon

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Nope.

 

It's stupid to make this stuff mandatory. They did it before by changing the way exposure preview works in manual mode. They still haven't fixed the dumb behaviour of exposure preview with a TTL flash. LENR. Leica have a bad habit of making decisions that should be user choices. Too many engineers and not enough photographers.

 

If I turn auto review off (I do) then I want it OFF. Not off except when Leica say it can't be OFF. Not "well we figured you'd want a dynamic model shoot interrupted with a preview" Not, "we'll make it impossible to mash the shutter to get the shot". OFF!!!!!

 

I fully accept some people might like this behaviour. But others don't and Leica are daft for removing or changing existing functionality just because they can. There's stuff that actually needs fixing and instead they waste time making changes like this.

 

Gordon

 

 

I have to agree with Gordon here about this sort of programming from Leica.

 

Gordon, it's not that bad as you may imagine it to be. As you know, the shutter trigger has 2 stage. The soft touch that initiates metering or activating camera and the 2nd stage triggering the shutter.

It's in the triggering shutter stage of when you do not release the tension where the image preview is retained.

You will still need to relax your finger at the 2nd stage before you can trigger another shot in single shot mode.

So when you take the pressure into the metering stage, the preview disappears.

 

It's a refinement I think I like. Keeping your finger fully depressing the button, the image preview appears. Relax it to take another shot, it goes away. Have to say well done Leica! but let us choose and explain succinctly. So we know its a feature and NOT a bug.

 

Thanks, OP, for your accidental discovery. I would be enormously frustrated if I didn't realised whats happening and image freezes start happening at odd unexplained moments. 

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I have to agree with Gordon here about this sort of programming from Leica.

 

Gordon, it's not that bad as you may imagine it to be. As you know, the shutter trigger has 2 stage. The soft touch that initiates metering or activating camera and the 2nd stage triggering the shutter.

It's in the triggering shutter stage of when you do not release the tension where the image preview is retained.

You will still need to relax your finger at the 2nd stage before you can trigger another shot in single shot mode.

So when you take the pressure into the metering stage, the preview disappears.

 

It's a refinement I think I like. Keeping your finger fully depressing the button, the image preview appears. Relax it to take another shot, it goes away. Have to say well done Leica! but let us choose and explain succinctly. So we know its a feature and NOT a bug.

 

Thanks, OP, for your accidental discovery. I would be enormously frustrated if I didn't realised whats happening and image freezes start happening at odd unexplained moments. 

 

Thanks mate....

 

At some stage I'll probably have to update. But for now I'll stay with 3.1. I get to avoid this and the eco mode feature.

 

I can think of a bunch of places I wouldn't want this. Panning shots for example...

 

Gordon

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Leica USA is aware of this (when I complained to their regional rep when he was in town a couple weeks ago) and I got the sense that it isn't a "feature." In any event, they relayed it to Germany, where the firmware is written.

 

For me, it's a real embuggerance. After shooting film for 45 years, I have a pretty good idea whether I got the shot right, and even if I didn't the live view that you get just before tripping the shutter does the job. If I wanted to be a chimp I'd eat bananas and throw feces at visitors.

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I kind of like the "auto-review on half press" feature, but Leica should have given us the option of turning it off.

It is useful when shooting portraits, so you can see blinks and odd facial movements right away. The SL, like all EVS, has some delay. you often can't tell if the sitter was blinking.

tHAT BEING SAID, It's annoying when panning or following action. I have a very light touch on the shutter button, which helps avoid shake, and it forces me to exaggerate my movements. I could do without that.

 

I have found one bug (Leica, are you listening?). The viewfinder image will stay frozen if you shoot a sequence of images that's long enough to saturate I/O (card writing). Even if you take your finger off the shutter button.

The first time this happened I thought the camera had died. I took a deep breath and waited for the "write" LED to stop blinking, played around with the camera, and it started displaying a live image again.

 

I later realized that this causes the shutter button to behave in the opposite way. Taking your finger off the shutter does nothing (the last capture is still frozen in the viewfinder); touching the shutter button again re-starts live view!

I can't imagine that Leica did this on purpose. It changes the behaviour of the camera's main interface (the shutter button), right in the middle of intensive shooting. Previous firmware versions did not do this.

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I have found one bug (Leica, are you listening?). The viewfinder image will stay frozen if you shoot a sequence of images that's long enough to saturate I/O (card writing). Even if you take your finger off the shutter button.

The first time this happened I thought the camera had died. I took a deep breath and waited for the "write" LED to stop blinking, played around with the camera, and it started displaying a live image again.

 

I later realized that this causes the shutter button to behave in the opposite way. Taking your finger off the shutter does nothing (the last capture is still frozen in the viewfinder); touching the shutter button again re-starts live view!

I can't imagine that Leica did this on purpose. It changes the behaviour of the camera's main interface (the shutter button), right in the middle of intensive shooting. Previous firmware versions did not do this.

 

 

I think that's happen to me a few times. As I was shooting with flash, I assume that it was the flash that was the issue.

 

I have ran into glitches whenever I'm shooting fast and lots of images with 3.0. But I wasn't able to nail down the problem.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "touching the shutter button again re-starts live view! I can't imagine that Leica did this on purpose. It changes the behaviour of the camera's main interface (the shutter button), , right in the middle of intensive shooting."

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Leica USA is aware of this (when I complained to their regional rep when he was in town a couple weeks ago) and I got the sense that it isn't a "feature." In any event, they relayed it to Germany, where the firmware is written.

 

For me, it's a real embuggerance. After shooting film for 45 years, I have a pretty good idea whether I got the shot right, and even if I didn't the live view that you get just before tripping the shutter does the job. If I wanted to be a chimp I'd eat bananas and throw feces at visitors.

 

 If memory serves me right it worked like this on the X-Vario, but I can't recall if it was selectable .... It's basically the exact opposite of 'permanent' and much more useful than the other 'timed' options. 

 

It also works this way as well on the CL with auto review switched off.... review till finger off the shutter button. 

 

Personally I think it's a really handy feature and I really can's see what all the fuss is about.  

 

As children we are taught to keep our fingers off things so it should be no hardship to retrain your errant digit. 

Edited by thighslapper
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I'm not sure what you mean by "touching the shutter button again re-starts live view! I can't imagine that Leica did this on purpose. It changes the behaviour of the camera's main interface (the shutter button), , right in the middle of intensive shooting."

 

Taking your finger off the shutter button completely and then pressing the shutter button half-way un-freezes the viewfinder image during intensive I/O (or at least it does for me). That's the opposite of normal operation (for fw3.2) where you just need to go up one "click" on the shutter button after taking a picture.

 

Here's a summary.

 

- Most of the time, the first click on the shutter button turns-on exposure information and exposure preview.

The second click takes a picture and freezes the viewfinder, showing the picture you just took.

Going back to the first click brings you back to a live image.

 

- When the I/O is saturated (if you took many shots in a short time), the behaviour changes.

The viewfinder image stays frozen after exposure, even if you go back to the first click, or take your finger off the shutter button. You can still take pictures at this point, but you are operating blind (the frozen preview does not update).

To return to live view, you need to take your finger completely off the shutter button, and then put it back on and press to the first click.

 

It's very disconcerting the first time it happens. I thought I was going to have to do a hard reset (popping the battery). Even worse, I was afraid that I had lost the whole sequence.

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Thanks mate....

 

At some stage I'll probably have to update. But for now I'll stay with 3.1. I get to avoid this and the eco mode feature.

 

I can think of a bunch of places I wouldn't want this. Panning shots for example...

 

Gordon

I'm still baffled by your reaction to this, and can only suggest you find an SL with the update and see if you still dislike it.

 

(And I cant see where mashing the shutter comes in).

 

If you want to take a quick sequence (like panning), you're not going to keep your finger pressed down after a shot; you're going to lift it ready for the next one, aren't you? In which case there's no freeze/black-out. Why would you want to keep your finger pressed down if you're in a hurry to take the next shot? Nobody's making me chimp involuntarily - unless I want to, when I keep my finger down.

 

I was at a rehearsal for a musical (song, dance and acting) this afternoon, where expressions change by the fraction of a second, and I noticed no change in viewing continuity from v3.1. 

 

OTOH, I'm with you on eco mode, even though it can be switched off: I guess this was someone at Wetzlar's bright idea for solving problem number 387 on the priority list. 

Edited by LocalHero1953
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I'm still baffled by your reaction to this, and can only suggest you find an SL with the update and see if you still dislike it.

 

(And I cant see where mashing the shutter comes in).

 

If you want to take a quick sequence (like panning), you're not going to keep your finger pressed down after a shot; you're going to lift it ready for the next one, aren't you? In which case there's no freeze/black-out. Why would you want to keep your finger pressed down if you're in a hurry to take the next shot? Nobody's making me chimp involuntarily - unless I want to, when I keep my finger down.

 

I was at a rehearsal for a musical (song, dance and acting) this afternoon, where expressions change by the fraction of a second, and I noticed no change in viewing continuity from v3.1. 

 

OTOH, I'm with you on eco mode, even though it can be switched off: I guess this was someone at Wetzlar's bright idea for solving problem number 387 on the priority list. 

 

 

1. In a single pan you keep your finger pressed down (well at least I do) through and after the pan. When the exposure is finished you want to see the subject live to get an idea if you panned properly as it'll be in about the same spot as before the exposure started. This "feature" makes that impossible.

 

2. I shoot in situations where I mash the shutter. I have done so for 25 years. And I could do so with the SL. So now I need to retrain my behaviour on the SAME camera. I've always done the older version (from the film days where you could delay the motor drive by holding the shutter) and it's there at a cellular level.

 

3. I love most of what mirrorless cameras allow. The one thing I HATE is auto image review. I breaks the flow in fast shooting situations. It's the first thing I turn off in the menus. I only what to see what I'm doing when I'm shooting. Not what I've done. If I do I know where the button for playback is. To me that microsecond will completely break the flow I want. Depending where the camera is (like I'm holding it over my head on a dance floor) I might not easily be able to lift the finger fast enough to not see the review. In that micro second I lose my subject and not I have to swing the camera around until I find them. No thanks.

 

4. It's not the new "feature". It's that Leica have a couple of really really bad habits when it comes to firmware. The first is that they enforce things that should be user configurable (LENR, exposure preview with TTL flash in manual mode) and the second is that they change the behaviour of the camera from firmware to firmware without giving notice and without giving an option to keep the old way. They did it with the exposure preview on half press function from 2.x to 3.x (and not only did they NOT give you the option on the SL they did on the M!!). Here we have another arbitrary decision by Leica that makes the SL operate in a slightly different way and you're stuck with it.

 

5. Leica makes changes like this, that no one really wanted and no one asked for when there are still real problems in the firmware and PAGES of useful and interesting ideas available that would actually enhance the SL user experience. Someone did this deliberately. And someone coded the ECO mode stuff. And they did that instead of sorting out issues that are real and implementing stuff that dozens and dozens of people asked for. Does anyone really think that more people want an ECO mode and mandatory image review than the removal of mandatory LENR? ECO mode or focus bracketing? Mandatory image review or adjustable brightness in the EVF? No one likes the current eco mode except the little dudes in the white coats at Leica. I'd rather they FIX stuff before adding more stuff we don't need. This is the same.

 

6. And lastly, I can't help myself. I have a whole bunch of money tied up in Leica gear. I'm invested and I like the products. I'm not a Leica hater. I like the SL. I like the lenses. I still think it's the best overall mirrorless system for what I do. But at the same time I'm not ever going to say "it's not that bad..." like I'm just going to sit and watch Leica make poor decisions. Sure, lots of people will like this. But a lot won't. When you make a change that is going to be seen Every. Single. Shot. and half your user base questions that change then it should be optional. Making it mandatory is a dumb decision. Changing the behaviour of the camera without a universal request to do so is a dumb decision. This isn't the first time I'm going to have to change the way I work, because of a mandatory change by Leica. It annoys.

 

The Leica SL may be great and the lenses spectacular but I really think Leica wants me to shoot with a Sony......

 

Gordon

 

p.s. And I have tried it. It's on the CL. I didn't know it had flowed over to the SL. It's taken away from my enjoyment of that camera and I have hardly used it (the CL) since the new firmware went live.

Edited by FlashGordonPhotography
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I just installed 3.2.  For regular shooting the new behavior does not seem to cause me any issues although I really don't get its usefulness either...

 

If however it shows the same behavior during continuous shooting as the original poster seems to indicate that would be more embarrassing.  That would be terrible for sports and action shooters.

 

Besides that my file numbering got reset once more... I thought it stopped doing that during previous upgrades but perhaps I am wrong.... Frustrating...

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