Next generation SL2 hardware

[bencoyote]

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While my M has been away in the shop, I've been getting to know my SL a lot better.  Both hardware wise and software wise, it seems like a great camera. This seems like it is going to be a plenty good enough camera for me and what I do for a long time. Never the less, I started keeping notes about what I would like in the next generation hardware. Mostly it involves the IO ports:

 

Make both card slots UHS-II 

 

3x USB-C type 3.1 ports rather than the accessory port, the HDMI port and and the Micro-B port.

• The remote can be a USB HID device. (just like a mouse and a keyboard, an external numeric keypad. Those are all HID devices)
• The audio adapter can a USB sound card sort of like https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-BENGOO-External-Converter-Headset/dp/B072BMG9TB/ref=zg_bs_3015427011_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=SBDW56WFB4YNH8N7FMFK I think that this is basically what the audio adapter is already but it has a funny connector on it. This could easily be used for stereo or multi-channel input for advanced users. You are not limited to a TRR or a TRRS there are already USB devices with multiple XLR inputs if that is what you need.
• USB-C has a DisplayPort alternative mode. So that if you want to send video to an external recorder you can. If recorders have USB-C use that. If it only has HDMI, then the user can take a standard USB-C->HDMI adapter, the kind you use on your MBP to convert to HDMI then use a standard HDMI cable or get one of those cables USB-C with the HDMI adapter built in.
• For tethering the camera itself becomes USB-C hub with multiple devices, a camera - just like a webcam but better, a HID device for all its buttons, and mass storage for its cards. Imagine using your Leica SL as your webcam for skype? 
• USB-C also can also do Power Delivery - charge the battery in the camera. You wouldn't always need to bring your battery charger or if you lost it, then you could use the camera body to charge the camera.
• USB-C PD could also be used to run the camera for those very long video segments that last longer than a battery. You wouldn't need some kind of dummy battery to provide power to the camera.
• The external charger should also take USB-C that way you don't have to worry about plugs. 15W is plenty and you could plug it into any handy cell phone charger.
• With USB-C Power pass through plug your MacBook USB-C charger into the camera as well as the external charger and it will charge both batteries at once.
• With all the ports the same, you are better able to do cable routing.
• USB-C ports are well engineered and rugged - probably more so than any of the connectors built into the current SL. If one fails in the field, you just use the others.
• USB-C ports are more compact allowing a smaller area for ports.
• Video recorders are relatively expensive. Imagine if you could plug in a suitably fast USB-C hard disk or SSD and the SL would just write to it. This is where you would probably need to plug in something like your MBP USB-C power brick into another port of the camera to provide power to the camera and the external HD.
• Plug a USB-C to lightning cable into the camera and then use your iPhone, iPad as the external monitor.
• Plug a USB-C monitor into the camera for a really big display, also the monitor could power the camera.

All of these are just different modes for USB-C and well within the capabilities of the current chips that are available. The trick would be changing the mode of the ports from host mode to device mode as needed. 

 

Thoughts?

[LD_50]

I want almost none of that. The card slots being the same yes. The complexity of the SL as a USB hub no.

 

Using the SL as a webcam sounds like exactly the type of idea bloat that kills products.

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[lx1713]

I think the USB-C ports takes up less space than the current ports and because it can do a lot more, I would be happy if Leica adopts it in the next body. For sure it can make the left panel a lot smaller and do away with proprietary ports.

[scroy]

USB-C generally would be great. It would reduce the need for other connectors and bringing a power brick along -  ideally using USB-3.2 or Thunderbolt in terms of protocol would also be nice as it could support 20/40Gbps data transfers and enhanced external display support.

Other features mentioned could be nice, but could make things more complicated.

 

Biggest item for me would be opening up the API to allow additional 3rd Party app development.  There seem to be many capabilities within the HW that could nicely utilized within an iOS/Android app => Focus stacking and removal of LENR (tie to single dark frame) are a couple of items.

[Irakly Shanidze]

USB-C is a great idea. Blackmagic Design implemented it in their new Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. Two main things are recording onto an external SSD and a constant power source. The second USB-C port can be used as HDMI out, and USB-C > HDMI cables are available.

[rsmphoto]

Agreed. As someone who works tethered, USB-C would be quite welcome. That, and 50mp would be just about ideal.

[Bill W]

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USB-C would be a great addition.

[Irakly Shanidze]

Agreed. As someone who works tethered, USB-C would be quite welcome. That, and 50mp would be just about ideal.

 

I can see the real utility of USB-C with video, not with stills. 50mpix for stills is excessive. Practical use of such a high-resolution sensor is limited.

[lx1713]

I can see the real utility of USB-C with video, not with stills. 50mpix for stills is excessive. Practical use of such a high-resolution sensor is limited.

 

It's a very common workflow for commercial setups to work tethered    It does depend on one's client but doing tethered has enormous realtime productivity particularly when the key decision makers are on hand to sign off on the work being executed. A laptop or 30" monitor beats the rear screen of the SL.

 

The USB-C is just an updated firewire, USB or ethernet RJ45 version of tethered data flowing from camera to computer. It was needful 15  or so years ago, still is 

But what's important, is that the same data pipe works for both.

Edited May 16, 2018 by lx1713

[rsmphoto]

It's a very common workflow for commercial setups to work tethered    It does depend on one's client but doing tethered has enormous realtime productivity particularly when the key decision makers are on hand to sign off on the work being executed. A laptop or 30" monitor beats the rear screen of the SL.

 

The USB-C is just an updated firewire, USB or ethernet RJ45 version of tethered data flowing from camera to computer. It was needful 15  or so years ago, still is 

But what's important, is that the same data pipe works for both.

 

 

Exactly! The key is speed of data flow for review on-screen, which interns adds to productivity. Remembering the days of waiting for each Polaroid type 52 test to develop. During a shooting day that added up to a lot of waiting around. Same applies for today.

Edited May 16, 2018 by rsmphoto

[lx1713]

Exactly! The key is speed of data flow for review on-screen, which interns adds to productivity. Remembering the days of waiting for each Polaroid type 52 test to develop. During a shooting day that added up to a lot of waiting around. Same applies for today.

 

Polaroids were rather costly, adds up. I was more thoughtful when I shot with film   There's a certain loosening of disciplines for me. So tethering is a good restrainer   of a trigger happy finger.

 

USB-C is a good thing even if I don't tether    These days I'm more likely to use it for video so there

Edited May 16, 2018 by lx1713

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE USBC for charging purposes. I really missed it's removal from the CL (the TL2 has it). Instant backup for the travel photographer. I use it all the time on my CL and my Sony's.

 

Having it for speedy transfers and improved tethering would certainly be useful but not critical for me. I see how other would find it more useful.

 

Overall I like the SL hardware. I would welcome small changes in the grip to make it more X1D like. (After you pick that one up you want all cameras to have it. )

 

I'd like to see a big improvement in the grip. A smaller better designed one for TWO spare batteries (three in total) for still photographer and a (larger??) one with all the industry connectors, permanent power (as well as battery) and extra ports for the video guys. Do that properly and you eliminate the mess of connector, adaptors and dongles.

 

Gordon

[Jeff S]

 

Overall I like the SL hardware. I would welcome small changes in the grip to make it more X1D like. (After you pick that one up you want all cameras to have it. )

 

I totally agree with the X1D assessment. Dr. Kaufmann did say (LuLa interview) that the next SL would be “less brutal....more elegant”. Let’s hope that means more like the X1D in that regard.

 

Jeff

[Alistairm]

Me three on the X1D in hand. I wish we could get Hasselblad to make the cameras and Leica to make the lenses! 

[Likaleica]

+1. And a little lighter.

[lx1713]

Me three on the X1D in hand. I wish we could get Hasselblad to make the cameras and Leica to make the lenses! 

 

Surely ergonomics is not exclusive to Hasselblad    but it's true, that's what struck me most when I had a chance with the X1D.

 

I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE USBC for charging purposes. I really missed it's removal from the CL (the TL2 has it). Instant backup for the travel photographer. I use it all the time on my CL and my Sony's.

 

Having it for speedy transfers and improved tethering would certainly be useful but not critical for me. I see how other would find it more useful.

 

Overall I like the SL hardware. I would welcome small changes in the grip to make it more X1D like. (After you pick that one up you want all cameras to have it. )

 

I'd like to see a big improvement in the grip. A smaller better designed one for TWO spare batteries (three in total) for still photographer and a (larger??) one with all the industry connectors, permanent power (as well as battery) and extra ports for the video guys. Do that properly and you eliminate the mess of connector, adaptors and dongles.

 

Gordon

 

+1 for a better SL body grip. It's not great.

+1 for your suggestions on the add on grip. I have to admit I don't like carrying it at length. Feels terrible against a Canon 1D.

[Bill W]

Agree on a better grip. The SL body alone is not that heavy, its just when you put one of those darn SL lens on it......  The X1D's grip is a real gem in my opinion. It has a natural fit to you hand. It would not take much for the SL to follow its form.

[lecycliste]

It's a very common workflow for commercial setups to work tethered    It does depend on one's client but doing tethered has enormous realtime productivity particularly when the key decision makers are on hand to sign off on the work being executed. A laptop or 30" monitor beats the rear screen of the SL.

I would love to use the SL tethered for real estate shoots where I need to see exactly what’s sharp. That little 3” LCD isn’t really enough, and neither are histograms to make critical decisions on any camera. How about using off-the-shelf EXISTING technology to allow this? It isn’t rocket science.

[lecycliste]

And when I’m shooting starfields, I hate waiting twice the multiple-minute exposure time to see my results. Change the firmware to allow disabling Long Exposure Noise Reduction (LENR), and treat us like mature professionals who can make our own decisions. Again, this isn’t rocket science. My EOS 5D mk IV allows this, but I’d really like to use low-coma Leica glass for night sky shooting.

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[sdw]

+1 on lecycliste's suggestions, and just get rid of the botched external audio solution and give us a proper mic port.