rangefinder alignment question

[jaeger]

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I've been having difficulty to focus both my life and thru the rangefinder, it is very frustrated.  Forget my life, if I place a ruler flat and at zero degree toward me (12 and 6 o'clock) and see it thru the rangefinder from 45 degrees adjacent. The focus block that moves left to right sees the ruler at 1 and 7 o'clock which is approx. 10 degrees off clockwise.  It happens on all my lenses, so I can presume that the rangefinder is creating this issue. 

 

I was expecting the image block is also at 0 degree.  Is my camera normal or the rangefinder is misaligned?  

Edited May 15, 2018 by jaeger

[jaeger]

It seems like a vertical alignment issue that I need to remove the red dot and screw it with a $250 tool.  Is my research correct?

Edited May 15, 2018 by jaeger

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[Maarten]

To my knowledge the vertical alignment of the M10 and M(240) can be adjusted with a 2mm hex key. A good quality key is available below 5 Euro, preferably from a professional tool shop. Does that knowledge improve your life? Wish you success!

 

And for the horizontal correction: use the infinity setting first and then check close-up. I never use the ruler test, close-up is usually well corrected while the infinity setting tends to need correction once in a while.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Maarten

[UliWer]

I've been having difficulty to focus both my life and thru the rangefinder, it is very frustrated.  Forget my life, if I place a ruler flat and at zero degree toward me (12 and 6 o'clock) and see it thru the rangefinder from 45 degrees adjacent. The focus block that moves left to right sees the ruler at 1 and 7 o'clock which is approx. 10 degrees off clockwise.  It happens on all my lenses, so I can presume that the rangefinder is creating this issue. 

 

I was expecting the image block is also at 0 degree.  Is my camera normal or the rangefinder is misaligned?

 

I fear your way of testing is no ideal way to get a precise idea whether your rangefinder is o.k.

 

My recommendation would be to try first any object which is at 90 degree infront of you, holding the camera parallel to the object.. Do you see any misalignment? If not, it is better not to try any „re-alignment“.

 

With the camera‘s position at 45 degree you‘ll always have someting misaligned - just because it it out of focus as it is further away or closer. And you have to hold the camera in vertical position if the ruler you focus on heads in the direction away from you. Horizontal position is only right when the ruler is also horizontal.

[jaapv]

To my knowledge the vertical alignment of the M10 and M(240) can be adjusted with a 2mm hex key. A good quality key is available below 5 Euro, preferably from a professional tool shop. Does that knowledge improve your life? Wish you success!

 

And for the horizontal correction: use the infinity setting first and then check close-up. I never use the ruler test, close-up is usually well corrected while the infinity setting tends to need correction once in a while.

 

It seems like a vertical alignment issue that I need to remove the red dot and screw it with a $250 tool.  Is my research correct?

No.It is incorrect

[jaeger]

Just came back from Leica dealer and confirm the alignment was "really" bad.  They have it packed and ship to NJ today or tomorrow.  

 

@UliWer, yes if I focus a subject perpendicularly I will see a minute off from top/bottom but it's so insignificant that I thought it was my bad eyesight.  But this tiny off set makes most of my pictures when to recycle bin.  

 

@Maartin, I 

 

Before this new discovery, I was suspecting my lenses but what a bad luck I could get all bad lenses...  however 2 of my 4 lenses are still not sharp that I need wait weeks for a reliable body to come back and test them again. 

 

I've read many incidents about bad Leica products on the internet, say people need to send their new Leica gears for service...blar blar blar  Now I am a living proof and I am quite disappointing about it.  I don't know what to say when friends and family ask me how my Leica experience go...  but what I know is, I'm losing my camera for weeks and all my Leica investments are locked in the safe while making credit card payments.  I'll stop looking at any Leica products until all these problems are sort out.  If there is any unsolved issue then I will say bye bye and go Canon. 

[jaapv]

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A pity you had to send it in. Any independent Leica workshop can do this adjustment whilst you wait, in fact, it is quite easy to DIY, using a simple 2 mm Allen key, available from any tool shop. 5 minutes.

However, wishing you a speedy return of the camera.

[jaeger]

I wouldn't do it myself when it's still warrantied, making sense?  It would be a torture because I have 2 more lenses with sharpness issue to deal with... =(  It's really hard to prove how sharp is sharp enough or the other way around.  But to my eye, they are not sharp, my panaleica is sharper...  

 

 

A pity you had to send it in. Any independent Leica workshop can do this adjustment whilst you wait, in fact, it is quite easy to DIY, using a simple 2 mm Allen key, available from any tool shop. 5 minutes.

However, wishing you a speedy return of the camera.

[Nordvik]

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/118043-m9-coincidence-at-infinity/

 

Just try it. It is not that difficult. Read nr. 8, 9, 10 and 15. Read the other pages for examples for screwdrivers and other tips.

[Gobert]

How can it be that you have that many bad products? I’ve never had that expercience with Leica?

[Exodies]

You can’t believe everything you read.

[jaeger]

The M240 has 2 issues so far, hot pixels and misaligned focus.  The other 2 lenses are under suspicion only, need the camera come back to test more.  

 

 

How can it be that you have that many bad products? I’ve never had that expercience with Leica?

[jaeger]

Thanks, I've read this before but my case is different.  The image inside the focus block is tilted, the adjustment is behind the red dot and requires a special tool.  #2 hex key only work on M6 or older, new Ms require a tool that cost $250.  Some member here made their own tool but I am not that talented.

 

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/118043-m9-coincidence-at-infinity/

Just try it. It is not that difficult. Read nr. 8, 9, 10 and 15. Read the other pages for examples for screwdrivers and other tips.

[jaeger]

I don't want to... 

 

You can’t believe everything you read.

[jaapv]

Thanks, I've read this before but my case is different.  The image inside the focus block is tilted, the adjustment is behind the red dot and requires a special tool.  #2 hex key only work on M6 or older, new Ms require a tool that cost $250.  Some member here made their own tool but I am not that talented.

You don't need a special tool  for the M240 or M10, that was changed after the M9. Just a 2  mm hex key. The red dot hangs in there with permanent sticky suff, the easiest thing to remove.

M3-M9 used a ground down to an L-shape screwdriver with a 2.5 mm blade. 

I think I am going to sell those special tools for 250 $ each too, I estimate I will have the funds for an S set within a few months... In other words, somebody is practising daylight robbery.

 

However, if you are more comfortable sending it to Leica, that's fine.All you will lose is some time.

[jaeger]

Good to know and thank you.  I've sent my camera to NJ already and there is a hot pixel that needs to be remapped out anyway.  If the alignment is off I will try next time and probably change to a black Leica logo too.  =P

 

 

You don't need a special tool  for the M240 or M10, that was changed after the M9. Just a 2  mm hex key. The red dot hangs in there with permanent sticky suff, the easiest thing to remove.

M3-M9 used a ground down to an L-shape screwdriver with a 2.5 mm blade. 

I think I am going to sell those special tools for 250 $ each too, I estimate I will have the funds for an S set within a few months... In other words, somebody is practising daylight robbery.

 

However, if you are more comfortable sending it to Leica, that's fine.All you will lose is some time.

[Nordvik]

Use this one for testing focus at one meter: http://www.fotosav.ru/articles/faq/back_focus/back_focus_testing.aspx

[adan]

I've been having difficulty to focus both my life and thru the rangefinder, it is very frustrated.  Forget my life, if I place a ruler flat and at zero degree toward me (12 and 6 o'clock) and see it thru the rangefinder from 45 degrees adjacent. The focus block that moves left to right sees the ruler at 1 and 7 o'clock which is approx. 10 degrees off clockwise.  It happens on all my lenses, so I can presume that the rangefinder is creating this issue. 

 

I was expecting the image block is also at 0 degree.  Is my camera normal or the rangefinder is misaligned?  

 

If Leica says the RF is misaligned, that's fine.

 

BUT - it is perfectly normal (in fact desired) that if a ruler is placed in front of an RF camera at 90° (running 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock), then the secondary RF image will see it skewed as from (approximately) 7 o'clock to 1 o'clock. As described. And as shown below.

 

That is the whole idea of the rangefinder - viewing the world (or the ruler) from two different angles, to triangulate the distance.

 

The one place the two images cross is the one place where the lens is focused - the images coincide at only that point. If both views showed the ruler "straight" from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock, you'd have no way of knowing whether the lens was focused at "0" or "1" or "3" - they would ALL be aligned and apparently in focus.

 

One can check this with their own eyes - align a ruler straight out from the left eye, and then close the left eye and look at the ruler from the right-eye position only - skewed from 7 to 1, more or less. An RF camera has "two eyes" for "binocular (bi = two, ocular = eye) depth perception" when focusing or judging distance - just like us. Also known as "parallax" - and BTW, the camera lens itself will "see" the world from a slightly different angle than either RF window (which is why RFs are not good for macro shots, except via "live-view.)"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception#Binocular_cues

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax

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[jaeger]

The double rangefinder view is exactly what I see!  

 

 

If Leica says the RF is misaligned, that's fine.

 

BUT - it is perfectly normal (in fact desired) that if a ruler is placed in front of an RF camera at 90° (running 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock), then the secondary RF image will see it skewed as from (approximately) 7 o'clock to 1 o'clock. As described. And as shown below.

 

That is the whole idea of the rangefinder - viewing the world (or the ruler) from two different angles, to triangulate the distance.

 

The one place the two images cross is the one place where the lens is focused - the images coincide at only that point. If both views showed the ruler "straight" from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock, you'd have no way of knowing whether the lens was focused at "0" or "1" or "3" - they would ALL be aligned and apparently in focus.

 

One can check this with their own eyes - align a ruler straight out from the left eye, and then close the left eye and look at the ruler from the right-eye position only - skewed from 7 to 1, more or less. An RF camera has "two eyes" for "binocular (bi = two, ocular = eye) depth perception" when focusing or judging distance - just like us. Also known as "parallax" - and BTW, the camera lens itself will "see" the world from a slightly different angle than either RF window (which is why RFs are not good for macro shots, except via "live-view.)"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_perception#Binocular_cues

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jdlaing]

Then it’s not out of adjustment.