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Have looked at theP800 installation video. Very informative. Will order a P800 next week when I will be around to take delivery.

Will get some time with it then consider IP. Maybe they will have some video tutorials running again by then.

Looking to see if P800 available without roll attatchment. Will never need it.

Mike.

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Have looked at theP800 installation video. Very informative. Will order a P800 next week when I will be around to take delivery.

Will get some time with it then consider IP. Maybe they will have some video tutorials running again by then.

Looking to see if P800 available without roll attatchment. Will never need it.

Mike.

Roll attachment is optionsl extra cost.

 

Once again, be sure to check the Epson site for promos and discounts, as well as dealer/online deals. They appear often. I saved $350 or $400, years ago.

 

You can still watch the old IP videos at the link provided.... will give you a good idea on use. I suspect not much will change to the core interface, but I haven’t yet reviewed.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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I hope this isn't too far OT (mods please turn this into a tnew thread if it is).

 

Has anyone tested the third party inks such as these ? https://www.marrutt.com/find-my-printer/epson-surecolor

I have looked at various alternatives to the Epson original ink and yes you can save some money . To me I would be just introducing an unknown factor over the inks that come with the P800. The inkset got very good revues especially the blacks . See the Lu La review by Michael Riechman.

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Thank you Brian for your offer. I will bear that in mind. A chat on the phone can be very helpful. I will more than likely go down the P800 route and get to know it before installing IP. I feel a little out of my depth but with help offered I am sure I will get there.

I can not seem to find a downloadable user maunual. Many of the pointers to IP come up page not available. I do subscribe to LL so will have a look on their site.

Thanks.

Mike.

I have the IP10 manual as a pdf file. So not a problem to send it to you.However as Jeff as said,the new version they are calling Black is actually IP 11 so that’s the version you will buy unless you went for the Red version.

I can see that posting on this thread could finish up costing me $300 or so .

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Does the new version still require a dongle?

 

I am pretty sure that a dongle will still be required. It is this component in the software that makes your copy unique to the owner and “can not be replaced “ . Without this security it would be easily cracked and on sale on sites like “the pirate ship” at a cheap price and giving lots of problems. Years ago I used a pirate copy of a windows operating system for a while but non of the security patches which Microsoft offered on a regular basis would install properly.Instead of the spinning globe on the top RH corner they had the Jolly Roger flag flying.

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I think I have a plan of action now. Shop around for best deal on P800. I am in no hurry. Will get to know the machine then go for IP.

Will use it on a need to know basis rather than try to take it all in at once.

The tutorials are very useful. Will be installing on my desk top imac running high seirra. Hope it works. Had a lot of trouble with high seirra when I first updated. Have found it not the most stable of the osx platforms but has settled down in last month or two.

I have enjoyed this thread. You are all most most helpful and the thread has stayed on topic.

I will obviously be buying from a third party ie not epson direct. Will I still get tech help for a period?

 

Mike.

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I think a $350 Epson rebate just ended. B&H had the P800 for $845. I don’t see any current promos on the Epson rebate site. Keep looking if you’re not in a rush.

 

As long as you buy from an authored Epson retailer, you can be assured of the full Epson warranty along with the dealer warranty.

 

I would advise against third party inks. For one, you first need to learn the machine the way it was intended; the fewer new variables, the better. Second, you may void the warranty and service terms. Except for Jon Cone (the guy responsible for Piezography), I wouldn’t trust the quality of third party inks, including longevity. Cone is brilliant and knows Epson inside and out, and even figured out a way to use his inks in P800s in North America, which are otherwise impossible to substitute.

 

Jeff

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I used third party inks (Permajet) with my R3000, with a continuous feed system from the ink bottles. I couldn't see the difference myself, and the cost was far less. Effectively I paid for the printer inside a year.

 

However........

 

After a couple of years I got progressively more ink blocks which became harder and harder to clear. Last year, after the latest difficult block, when I had an urgent need to print for an exhibition, I disposed of the printer, got the P800, and vowed to stick to Epson inks.

 

But I don't think the story is as simple as 'cheap but risky third party inks'. The R3000 does not have a waste ink tank - it just has a pad which gets progressively soaked with waste ink, which, I believe, causes the blocks. From all I could find on the net, Epson insist on you sending the whole printer back to them for servicing when this happens - you cannot change the pad yourself. When I discovered this, I bought a third party waste ink tank, which requires you to drill a hole in the printer casing and plumb it in. This worked fine for a while, until my more frequent purging to clear blockages resulted in the waste tank overflowing and causing a mess - fortunately on the shelf, not on the carpet. This was the last straw that prompted me to change printers.

 

My conclusion is that, yes, third party ink systems bring their own problems, but so do poorly designed printers like the R3000, along with Epson's commercial practices!

 

The P800 has its own waste ink tank which can be changed by the user.

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For the P800, the cost of an 80ml cartridge in my local shop is 55 €, which works out at 687,5 € per liter.

Online*, I can get a liter for 109,90 €. This is a saving of 577,6 € per liter per colour.... so 5198,4 € for all 9 colours. (you can get a pretty decent M for that price, a very nice set of lenses ... or about 6 P800 !!)

 

The same savings for the P600 works out at an even more staggering 9088,12 €

 

Of course, on top of that you also need to buy the cartridges and other bits and pieces (just once as they are refillable) for 306,90 € (for the P800). Also included in this starter kit are 100ml of each colour.

 

The same website sells another brand of ink for 129,90 € per liter, so the savings would be less but still substantial.

 

I have no idea how much ink is used on average per photo, so a liter per colour may be all a low volume printer like me would ever use .

Anyhow, it seems to be worth a try to me.

 

They mention, amongst others:

  • Compatible and colormatched to Epson® Ultrachrome® HD
  • Mixed operation with original inks is possible        
  • Cleaning the printhead or ink tubes is not necessary for ink change
 


Edited by ianman
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Buyer beware. P800 printers sold in North America were built to thwart third party inks....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VOsOQDr024U

 

Jon Cone figured out a solution, but I don’t know of any other companies that have. Here’s the caution on his site..

“P800 PRINTERS SOLD IN NORTH AMERICA WILL REQUIRE INSTALLATION OF OUR CHIP DECODER BOARD. YOU SHOULD REFRAIN FROM UPGRADING THE FIRMWARE IN ANY NORTH AMERICAN SURECOLOR PRINTER.”

 

And for those living elsewhere, I don’t know of any testing of third party inks, e.g., archival testing from Wilhelm, etc, akin to the scrutiny of Epson inks. “You takes your chances...”. I would trust Cone, however.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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For the P800, the cost of an 80ml cartridge in my local shop is 55 €, which works out at 687,5 € per liter.

Online*, I can get a liter for 109,90 €. This is a saving of 577,6 € per liter per colour.... so 5198,4 € for all 9 colours. (you can get a pretty decent M for that price, a very nice set of lenses ... or about 6 P800 !!)

 

The same savings for the P600 works out at an even more staggering 9088,12 €

 

Of course, on top of that you also need to buy the cartridges and other bits and pieces (just once as they are refillable) for 306,90 € (for the P800). Also included in this starter kit are 100ml of each colour.

 

The same website sells another brand of ink for 129,90 € per liter, so the savings would be less but still substantial.

 

I have no idea how much ink is used on average per photo, so a liter per colour may be all a low volume printer like me would ever use .

Anyhow, it seems to be worth a try to me.

 

They mention, amongst others:

 

  • Compatible and colormatched to Epson® Ultrachrome® HD
  • Mixed operation with original inks is possible        
  • Cleaning the printhead or ink tubes is not necessary for ink change
 

https://www.farbenwerk.com/farbenwerk-Pigmera-HD-Bottle-Photo-Black-1000ml

Your figures make sense but when I factor in the money I have spent on lenses/ camera bodies/ computers/ expensive paper/ lots of time etc I am not keen to introduce a potential variable by using a third party ink.I regularly get offers of up to 35% for some of these inks but personally am not even tempted. Only used Epson Printers because I have always found them pretty good and always use there own inks.Sure the ink is expensive but discounts can be found.

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I don't know about the wisdom of using these third party inks or not, thats is why I asked about others experience.

 

But, I cannot believe that any company would go to the trouble and fork out the investment for developing and marketing a product that does not work properly. They usually have investors to answer to and if their products don't work, they will not be in business for very long. I just don't understand why any company would do that. But again, I have no experience with these inks.

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I get your point Brian, but using a third party ink is no more adding a variable to using non Epson paper, just like every one of the other variables you mention.

If and when I get either the P600 or P800, I am going to test these inks. If they don't work, I can just switch back!  I would still be interested to know where the Epson ink can be got at 35% off though, I've personally never seen such an offer. On printers yes, but not on inks. That is their cash cow.

 

Anyway, for all we know, one (or both) of these companies are supplying Epson who just rebrand and add x-thousand percent markup  :)

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I get your point Brian, but using a third party ink is no more adding a variable to using non Epson paper, just like every one of the other variables you mention.

If and when I get either the P600 or P800, I am going to test these inks. If they don't work, I can just switch back! I would still be interested to know where the Epson ink can be got at 35% off though, I've personally never seen such an offer. On printers yes, but not on inks. That is their cash cow.

 

Anyway, for all we know, one (or both) of these companies are supplying Epson who just rebrand and add x-thousand percent markup :)

I’d be interested in your archival (fading, etc) tests. And whether the inks appear fine but might doing damage to your internal machine parts. And how they work with a RIP like IP, which controls ink dispersement based on Epson formulas, etc. And whether you’ll be doing A/B tests comparing ink sets on a wide variety of print renderings? You’ll be relying on faith for a lot.

 

I know Jon Cone’s background and reputation, and he knows the machines as well or better than Epson. Can’t speak for other suppliers.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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I get your point Brian, but using a third party ink is no more adding a variable to using non Epson paper, just like every one of the other variables you mention.

If and when I get either the P600 or P800, I am going to test these inks. If they don't work, I can just switch back!  I would still be interested to know where the Epson ink can be got at 35% off though, I've personally never seen such an offer. On printers yes, but not on inks. That is their cash cow.

 

Anyway, for all we know, one (or both) of these companies are supplying Epson who just rebrand and add x-thousand percent markup  :)

 

Bad choice of words.I was referring to that sort of discount on the 3rd party inks .I have had 10% max on Epson ink.The 3rd party inksets may be good ,I am not saying they are not its just that I have never been seriously tempted .I usually have a look at them at trade shows . Another issue would be paper profiles.At present I use IP 10 ( probably IP11by the end of the week) .All the profiles are created using Epson Ink.So I would have to reprofile my paper.That definitely won't be happening.I agree there is a potential saving to be made on ink, but for me the cost is too high. 

If you can find serious proof that these people are supplying Epson with ink I may be tempted but i know you are not even a tinny bit serious about that one. If you do buy a P800 my understanding is that the warranty will be invalidated by using other than Epson ink and I believe Cannon have the same policy.

Edited by Guest
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You’ll be relying on faith for a lot.

 

Yes, indeed. But again, do we really know that these inks aren't exactly the same that Epson sell? There is just as much or as little faith in believing that Epson does not source their inks from elsewhere.

 

I was only asking is anyone had tried the third party inks and that it seemed, economically at least, to make sense.  :) Anyway the answer to my question seems to be "no", so I'll leave it there.

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Does the new version still require a dongle?

 

 I answered this earlier but have some new info.

It still needs a dongle . For people upgrading to Black/ IP11 you just download the programme and use the existing dongle.New users will get a dongle in the kit.

When you are upgrading they need to know the number on your dongle which probably is keyed to the activation code they will supply.

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Yes, indeed. But again, do we really know that these inks aren't exactly the same that Epson sell? There is just as much or as little faith in believing that Epson does not source their inks from elsewhere.

.

Well, Wilhelm stakes its reputation on its testing and ratings, and are very specific about the ink sets they evaluate..

 

https://news.epson.com/news/new-epson-ultrachrome-hd-pigment-ink-technology-delivers-the-highest-print-permanence-ratings-ever-achieved-for-epson-ultrachrome-inks

 

I also know some folks who have tried third party inks on earlier Epsons and were dissatisfied with certain aspects such as bronzing and gloss differential. On the other hand, I know some who have good success with Cone inks. He knows his stuff and is a pioneer and noted expert in the print world.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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