Grey market?

[designdog]

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I am a Q owner looking to move “up” to the M. Thinking either M-P or M-D. The recent price increase makes M10 unrealistic.

 

I can get a new version of either camera from eBay dealers I have dealt with in the past, for Nikon D810, D5, and D5, and some high end lenses. Never had problems. Nikon now services grey market cameras, for a price of course.

 

Any experiences, opinions, pitfalls, etc.? Thanks.

[a.noctilux]

I don't know what is "Grey Market".

If I want a Leica and if I have a Leica dealer nearby, I would buy there.

 

For me it's not only for the less expensive buying but for relation and human contact and more than price.

 

Relation with nearby Leica Dealer has been for me that differenciate a Leica from another brand .

This is more important than hundreds or even more economy from anywhere else.

 

...

Side note:

M-D would be my choice .

But don't order it too late, you may regret

Edited May 5, 2018 by a.noctilux

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[jdlaing]

As far as I recall there is no grey market Leica.

[ECohen]

Go to your local dealer or a reputable mail order dealer buy a nice used 240MP there are plenty out there with great prices.

 

I like your line. "The recent price increase makes M10 unrealistic." I wonder how long it will be for me before I justify the increase? ..... Leica knows us and our Ouch factor.

[darylgo]

Leica is different than Nikon, with Leica there is great need (for me, others say they don't) for adjustments to lenses and bodies for rangefinder focusing to be optimal.   Afaik Leica Germany will do this but I am not so sure Leica New Jersey will (under warranty) if you purchase grey market.  Of course there are others that offer excellent service such as Don Goldman, but there will be a fee charged.  As an alternative there is Certified Pre-Owned.   Used Leica, reputable dealer or not, you need to know what you are buying, there are glitches that dealers may not find despite checking the camera and selling what they honestly believe is a non flawed product.  

[David North]

As far as I recall there is no grey market Leica.

 

 

My thoughts also, however earlier this year and en route to home in north east China, I spent a few days in Shanghai.  I buy from the approved Leica dealer in Shanghai, however and out of simple curiosity, I called in to Xing Guang Photographic Equipment City located at 300 Luban Lu, Shanghai.  Three multi storey buildings and dominated by the six floor Tower A which is "full to the gunwales" with every form of new photographic equipment imaginable.  I spotted at least six Leica "outlets" selling brand new and boxed, current M bodies, lenses and accessories.  The sellers were not Leica dealers and I was told that the stocks held were "grey imports", whatever that means.  No idea about the pedigree of the items and validity or not of warranties, however the price of the various Leica kit was negotiable and considerably cheaper than the Leica dealer in Shanghai.

 

No inclination whatsoever to buy from this outlet and also, never from here:-

 

https://s.taobao.com/search?q=Leica+M&js=1&stats_click=search_radio_all%3A1&initiative_id=staobaoz_20180509&ie=utf8

 

Regards and best wishes,

 

David

[lct]

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[...] I spotted at least six Leica "outlets" selling brand new and boxed, current M bodies, lenses and accessories.  The sellers were not Leica dealers and I was told that the stocks held were "grey imports", whatever that means. [...]

 

If it's not grey market i don't know how it is called. Can be found here and there with a bit of curiosity. Common point in my admittedly little experience there is no Leica warranty card in the box or it is an empty card w/o bar code printed on it. No Leica warranty then but the dealer may provide its own warranty for what it's worth.

[CharlesL]

Watch the M240 on eBay, Fred Miranda, and your local equivalent of craigslist. You get a feel for the market, you refine your decision about what price you are willing to pay, and you can pounce when the moment arrives.

 

If it is a Leica, it can be serviced. You will pay, since you are unlikely to get one still in warranty if and when you need service.

[jaapv]

If it's not grey market i don't know how it is called. Can be found here and there with a bit of curiosity. Common point in my admittedly little experience there is no Leica warranty card in the box or it is an empty card w/o bar code printed on it. No Leica warranty then but the dealer may provide its own warranty for what it's worth.

Leica does not require a warranty card, only proof of original purchase. That is the legal position in the EU and Leica, being a German company, is subject to German law.

If that is not present they will estimate the time of original sale from the factory records.

[jdlaing]

Leica does not require a warranty card, only proof of original purchase. That is the legal position in the EU and Leica, being a German company, is subject to German law.

If that is not present they will estimate the time of original sale from the factory records.

......or a bill of sale.

[lct]

I've been asked to provide a copy of the bar code twice already so i'm not sure if a simple proof of purchase to a grey market dealer could suffice but i may be wrong. BTW the normal applicable law in EU is that of the consumer's country.

[jdlaing]

No warranty card required in the USA.

Over the years I’ve had a couple of things repaired under Leica’s warranty.

 

I’m going to repeat this again:

 

Leica does not sell cameras on the grey market.

[lct]

I don't know what Leica does officially or unofficially but a grey market does exist actually.

[james.liam]

I am a Q owner looking to move “up” to the M. Thinking either M-P or M-D. The recent price increase makes M10 unrealistic.

 

 

Popflash has an essentially new, black M10 with full warranty at $6200. $1000 below list. List price is pie-in-the-sky that only Leica stores, and mega0sellers like B&H are obliged to enforce. 

 

Seek and ye shall find.

Edited May 11, 2018 by james.liam

[designdog]

So I made the plunge, and bought a new M-P40 from an ebay seller I have purchased from before. $5600. In the past, when I got a new Nikon camera body from them, all was perfect except no owners manual. Typical of grey market purchases. 

 

These guys, like most off them, offer a one year warranty. Thankfully I have never had to avail myself of that, as my cameras and lenses have had no problems whatsoever. I have heard that you can "force" Nikon USA to do repair on these cameras now.

 

This did not not mean I was not somewhat apprehensive when the new Leica came. I am delighted! Everything was as new, everything was included (I sat through a few "unboxing"  videos to prepare for this) and everything works as expected. Including the warranty pamphlet with the stickers. And the owner's manual! The grey box had a 6/10/2016 date on it, so the camera had been sitting in its packaging for a while.

 

So I am very happy with this outcome, and looking forward to learning about the M-P240!

Edited May 11, 2018 by designdog

[jaapv]

I've been asked to provide a copy of the bar code twice already so i'm not sure if a simple proof of purchase to a grey market dealer could suffice but i may be wrong. BTW the normal applicable law in EU is that of the consumer's country.

And that law is written in accordance with EU regulations.

[jdlaing]

So I made the plunge, and bought a new M-P40 from an ebay seller I have purchased from before. $5600. In the past, when I got a new Nikon camera body from them, all was perfect except no owners manual. Typical of grey market purchases. 

 

These guys, like most off them, offer a one year warranty. Thankfully I have never had to avail myself of that, as my cameras and lenses have had no problems whatsoever. I have heard that you can "force" Nikon USA to do repair on these cameras now.

 

This did not not mean I was not somewhat apprehensive when the new Leica came. I am delighted! Everything was as new, everything was included (I sat through a few "unboxing"  videos to prepare for this) and everything works as expected. Including the warranty pamphlet with the stickers. And the owner's manual! The grey box had a 6/10/2016 date on it, so the camera had been sitting in its packaging for a while.

 

So I am very happy with this outcome, and looking forward to learning about the M-P240!

Send a nice email to Dave Elwell at Leica USA and he may send you a manual.

[designdog]

Thanks - but the manual WAS included! Now if I can only remember to take the lens cap off...

[lct]

BTW the normal applicable law in EU is that of the consumer's country.

And that law is written in accordance with EU regulations.

 

EU regulations provide that sellers are liable to consumers for the goods they sell, not manufacturers who have no direct liability to consumers in EU law so far. To know if such direct liability is in force or not it is then necessary to apply the relevant national law i.e. that of the consumer's country normally as recalled above. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[TomB_tx]

Grey market (not imported by the official Leica agency) certainly used to be common in the US. I'm sure the R4 I bought mail-order, new but with significant discount, was not imported by Leitz USA. It had no USA warranty card, but did have a "store" warranty for one year. As I remember this was pretty common in the 1980s, and with no Leica dealers nearby made sense for a lot of folks.

It was reported that Leitz US would not service cameras they didn't import, but the factory would honor their mfgrs warranty.

I still use that R4, and it never needed service.