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james.liam

Meyer-Goerlitz to add rangefinder coupling

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It’s handmade in Germany. For that price, the bargain of the week.

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Too many years of APO, Aspherical, FLE and you're all spoiled.

 

And only f/2.9. Seriously?

I'd like more blur in my bubbles - need at least f/1.4.

Edited by Ecar

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And only f/2.9. Seriously?

 

Truly, and if the lens has focusing issues (back | front) will we ever know?

Allow me to skeptical of the 'made in Germany' claim. For all we know

the 3 lenses are molded. It strikes me as a hack.

Edited by pico

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It seems, indeed, more like the proverbial „Apple - designed in California“...

 

 

How is that much different than Leica, "Final Assembly in Wetzlar", or Zeiss as the design engine for Cosina and Sony optics?

Edited by james.liam

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Manufacturing in Wetzlar is actually performed by adults benefiting from European wages and labour rights/ safety standards. Part of Leicas pricing policy may be due to luxury hype, part due to economy of small scales, but another part is due to the above.

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Manufacturing in Wetzlar is actually performed by adults benefiting from European wages and labour rights/ safety standards. Part of Leicas pricing policy may be due to luxury hype, part due to economy of small scales, but another part is due to the above.

Labour rates and taxation varies from country to country but cost of labour in Japan and Germany for similar tasks ought to be similar. Japan is also welfare state so employer contributions ought to be similar to EU countries.  Japanese working overseas for a Japanese company usually receives lesser salary compared to home.  Big Japanese camera businesses have manufacturing operation in other Asian countries to benefit form lower labour cost and also shortage of workforce in Japan, China, Vietnam and Thailand spring to mind. 

 

In case of Leica there is big emphasis on Made in Wetzlar however factory in Portugal [lower labour rates to Germany] is fully integrated into the production of cameras, lenses and other products like binoculars.

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Labour rates and taxation varies from country to country but cost of labour in Japan and Germany for similar tasks ought to be similar. Japan is also welfare state so employer contributions ought to be similar to EU countries.

 

Labor in conditions in Japan are far tougher. It is not cheap to manufacture there, but it is cheaper than Germany.

Edited by Lonescapes

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Accept that, but cheaper by how much, between 10-30% or more?

Labor in conditions in Japan are far tougher. It is not cheap to manufacture there, but it is cheaper than Germany.

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I'd have to do some reading to give you a genuinely educated answer, but it would not surprise me if the answer is yes. One small example would be the length of a work week. In Germany, you're looking at 35-45 hours, otherwise you're paying overtime.

 

In Japan, an 80+ hour workweek without any overtime paid is not unusual, or if there is overtime, it is baked into the worker's contract (that's if they're lucky enough to have a contract) at the normal wage.

 

Japan has a very elaborate sub-sub-sub-contractor system that is designed to provide large companies with labor flexibility despite the strong protections written into the letter of labor law. So imagine if US labor laws were very strong but Uber still wanted to do what it does, so it set up a maze-like network of contractors so that it could claim that all it had done was hire a guy to hire a guy to hire a guy and had no clue what that guy at the end of the chain was doing and was therefore not responsible for him under the law.

 

That guy at the very end of the chain, who is not enjoying the benefits of the labor protections that most people associate with Japan's white-collar workforce, is the one assembling your stuff.

 

Now, I am not saying this applies to, for example, the Nikon and Fujifilm cameras and lenses that are assembled in the Sendai area, or to Sigma's people. In those cases, the companies have simply chosen to locate their manufacturing in rural areas where the cost of living is low and the education level of the local workforce is not high enough to command a particularly good salary. Very few parts of Germany are not well-developed. Parts of Japan are extremely rural and currently depopulating, meaning that the going rate for labor there is much lower. Japan in fact uses Germany as its model to attempt to revitalize its regional economies despite the loss of population, precisely because wealth is so evenly distributed among the geographic regions in Germany compared to other countries (the UK is always given as the counter-example by Japanese bureaucrats; ostensibly Britain has huge regional disparities).

 

The workers at Fuji/Sigma as an example are probably getting treated reasonably well. Whether they have a lifetime employment arrangement (which is considered the decent thing to do in Japan), I can't say. Even big companies (Mitsubishi, etc.) are phasing this out where possible in order to streamline their balance sheet.

Edited by Lonescapes

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Getting a bit back on topic (although only marginally so, I admit):

 

I find it disconcerting that a single person or very small group of people seems to have taken up the business model of buying cheaply available brand names of formerly renowned camera or lens makers, marketing tolerantly assembled products of extremely simple optic designs, sometimes cloning them across brands. This is apparently being done by placing each of these companies as a fashionably rogue startup, financed through kickstarter campaigns, marketing various presumed „rebirths“ of historic gear. This is perfectly legal, but you don‘t have to like it.

 

Below is an incomplete list of shared ownership (with some international secondary holdings or nested intermediaries):

 

Meyer Optik Görlitz – Semi Verwaltung GmbH

Biotar – Semi Verwaltung GmbH

Ihagee – Semi Verwaltung GmbH

Lydith – Semi Verwaltung GmbH

C. P. Goerz – Semi Verwaltung GmbH

Primagon – Semi Verwaltung GmbH

Emil Busch Rathenow – net SE

Flektogon – net SE.

 

Now it is up to each individual photographer to decide whether they pay $$$$ for a horrendously undercorrected, often, on first impression, sloppily built (wherever on earth) lens. If you like vintage, as I confess to do, there are tons of reasonably priced authentic historic specimen around. But then, everybody is different, and that is as it should be.

Edited by schattenundlicht

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.......Now it is up to each individual photographer to decide wheter they pay $$$$ for a horrendously undercorrected, often, on first impression, sloppily built (whereveron earth) lens. If you like vintage, as I confess to do, there are tons of reasonably priced authntic historic specimen around. But then, everybody is different, and that is as it should be.

 

If you're the sort who lives their photographic life on the endless treadmill of searching for the ultimate in aberration free lenses, then both your photography and your choices are more limited by design than someone else who may appreciate something different and is brave enough adapt their creative vision to lenses such as the MOG, Lensbaby and Holga alternatives.  Even 'Zeiss' dipped their toe into the creative pool with the ZM 50mm c-sonnar f1.5.

 

What is it that captivates some people to the extent that they will happily spend the cost of a reasonable used car for, in your words, such an horrendously under corrected lens as the new Thambar?

 

Photography for some might be about owning photographic trophy equipment, having the latest, sharpest and most expensive lenses and cameras.  Fortunately there are creatively interesting people around who do not step onto the same treadmill and can see the possibilities that these old lens formulas can offer.

 

The Leica M mount has fallen short with alternative lens choices until quite recently, I like the interesting options that are now becoming available.  You don't have to like the badge engineering methods used by MOG, but I'll enjoy seeing well-crafted artistic work made with these 'horrendously under corrected' lenses  over a dull f0.95 'test shot' made by someone whose only creative ability is to spend large amounts money.

 

Photography as a craft or an art can be many things to many people and availability of choice is healthy.

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If you're the sort who lives their photographic life on the endless treadmill of searching for the ultimate in aberration free lenses, then both your photography and your choices are more limited by design than someone else who may appreciate something different and is brave enough adapt their creative vision to lenses such as the MOG, Lensbaby and Holga alternatives.  Even 'Zeiss' dipped their toe into the creative pool with the ZM 50mm c-sonnar f1.5.

 

What is it that captivates some people to the extent that they will happily spend the cost of a reasonable used car for, in your words, such an horrendously under corrected lens as the new Thambar?

 

Photography for some might be about owning photographic trophy equipment, having the latest, sharpest and most expensive lenses and cameras.  Fortunately there are creatively interesting people around who do not step onto the same treadmill and can see the possibilities that these old lens formulas can offer.

 

The Leica M mount has fallen short with alternative lens choices until quite recently, I like the interesting options that are now becoming available.  You don't have to like the badge engineering methods used by MOG, but I'll enjoy seeing well-crafted artistic work made with these 'horrendously under corrected' lenses  over a dull f0.95 'test shot' made by someone whose only creative ability is to spend large amounts money.

 

Photography as a craft or an art can be many things to many people and availability of choice is healthy.

I do not see at all, how this addresses my expressed preference of authentic historic lenses over, to me, overpriced and overhyped clones.

 

An unsharp image does not make one an artist, neither does, of course, a sharp one.

 

We best put this discussion to rest, as I do not see it leading anywhere. Kind regards.

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