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I would like to know what you think or know about this carl zeiss optics for leica m, since it is a rare piece and I can not find information, I show you the design of lenses, which I found very strange, since it consists of only two elements. .. Thank you

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I agree with 01af, the lens diagram is wrong.  To be a Sonnar design, the two 'lens groups' shown should be compound lenses made of 2 or more individual lens elements and there should be a single, separate lens element to the left of the lefthand 'lens'.  The design will depend on whether it has a f/1.5 or f/2 maximum aperture but I can't read what's written on the lens (despite the thread title).

 

Pete.

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hola quiero poner en cuanto me sea posible fotos del objetivo que se vean bien . en cuanto al dibujo del esquema de las lente esta echo pormi no es profecional ,pero lo que estoy totalmente seguro es que se trata de dos lentes cada una echa de una piesa de cristal fundido creo de una gran puresa de fluorita , mi curiosida es que estube enbestigando y no encontre ningun diceño como este . el objetivo es plateado con bayoneta m parese que esta fabricado sobre los año 50. gracia.

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The photo on the left (mount end of the lens) clearly (relatively) shows an LTM to M adapter on the lens, so this is not directly an M mount lens, but was either made for E39 thread mount or converted to E39. I don't know if Zeiss made lenses in Leica mount, but I think I've heard of post-war Jena or Soviet lenses made to fit, since both Soviet FED and Zorki used the Leica mount for some models.

The Leica Thread Mount to M adapter looks so natural on lenses many people don't realize it is an adapter.

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During WW II Zeiss had to produce their Sonnar in LTM used by Wehrmacht or Marine as Leitz couldn't supply enough fast lenses. There are of course a lot of fakes not only from soviet sources after the war. You have to look not only at the finish of the lens-Barrel but on Serial number and engravings, too. Original Zeiss Sonnar in ltm are expensive colletor-items. Have a look at some serious actioneers and German Magazine Photo-Deal had articles on this, too.

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Sorry, I do not want to appear unhelpful, but this is getting a bit irritating to me: Why does TO start all his threads in English and later on gives lengthy replies in Spanish. It would be most helpful if he could stick to English, and it would most propably increase the helpfulness of our replies, as would pictures that show the items in question at least a little in focus (even a smartphone should do that)...

Edited by schattenundlicht
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The photo on the left (mount end of the lens) clearly (relatively) shows an LTM to M adapter on the lens, so this is not directly an M mount lens, but was either made for E39 thread mount or converted to E39. I don't know if Zeiss made lenses in Leica mount, but I think I've heard of post-war Jena or Soviet lenses made to fit, since both Soviet FED and Zorki used the Leica mount for some models.

The Leica Thread Mount to M adapter looks so natural on lenses many people don't realize it is an adapter.

 

I picked up a Jupiter 3 with an LTM (M39) mount from 1954 in St Petersburg last week. I would describe it as a Sonnar copy rather than a fake as it does not pretend to be a Zeiss lens. I had seen very over-priced fake Leicas in a 'tourist trap' shop in Moscow a few days earlier. The shop in St Petersburg was a genuine camera shop run by knowledgeable young film enthusiasts. They had a large stock of FSU cameras and lenses and I tried out 3 or 4 Jupiter 3s on my Leica M10 with an adapter before choosing the one I brought home. We had an interesting discussion about different generations of the lens and different factory marks etc. My Jupiter 3 gives a wonderful 'look' when shot wide open or near to that. I also tried a Jupiter 9 85mm f2 in nice condition, but as reported here and elsewhere, it seemed reluctant to give good focus. I also picked up a Jupiter turret multi-finder in very good condition. Both items came in wonderful strong Jupiter polystyrene holders and the one for the turret finder has a nice slot built in to it for the shoe in order to hold it steady.

 

I asked the young guy in the shop if he ever got Leica items. He said that most Leica items were over-priced for the Russian market and he rarely had them in. He had a lot of FSU stock and I was lucky to be able to take some time to pick out nice examples of what I wanted. Russian cameras and lenses can be of variable quality, so I could not pass up the opportunity to examine some first hand and to choose a good one. Original Zeiss Sonnars in LTM mount are not only much more expensive, but are also very hard to find. I would like to get an example some day if one comes up at a reliable auction. I would be much less interested in the modern Zeiss Sonnars.

 

William

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Be very careful - there are a number of fake Zeiss Sonnar LTM lenses in circulation. Google for the website which goes through in detail how to spot them. The majority will be re-engraved Jupiter 3 lenses. As these use a Zeiss focusing helicoid pitch, they will not be in correct RF to optical focus throughout their range. The new Lomo Jupiter-3  lens has been corrected for this and does focus properly on Leicas. 

 

Wilson

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Be very careful - there are a number of fake Zeiss Sonnar LTM lenses in circulation. Google for the website which goes through in detail how to spot them. The majority will be re-engraved Jupiter 3 lenses. As these use a Zeiss focusing helicoid pitch, they will not be in correct RF to optical focus throughout their range. The new Lomo Jupiter-3  lens has been corrected for this and does focus properly on Leicas. 

 

Wilson

 

You are right about looking for genuine LTM Sonnars. That is why I would only buy from a reputable source. My Jupiter 3 is optically excellent and I had an opportunity to test it before purchase. The shop in St Petersburg did sell Lomo stuff, but as a collector I was after a vintage item. There are some websites out there giving information on FSU lenses and their characteristics eg https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-jupiter-3-50mm-1-5/ and http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?1976488110. The large price differential between FSU items and their Zeiss equivalents is such that it encourages faking. 

 

William

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>>I picked up a Jupiter 3 with an LTM (M39) mount from 1954 in St Petersburg last week.<<

 

You must have chosen one of the ones I didn't take a few weeks earlier! I presume it was the tiny shop - booth really - in Gostiny Dvor? I had four or five Jupiter-3s to choose from, and there were two or three I would have been very happy with. The young guy in there was very helpful and spoke pretty good English (certainly much better than my Russian)  - I would be very happy to go back there. I haven't as yet had any chance to use my lens for the reason I bought it, portraits, but I have been very pleased with it on the few occasions I have managed to use it on my M10...... 

 

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It may be worth mentioning that the original Sonnar with Contax mount can be used with an M and (I hope so) with an LTM camera.

 

Amedeo Muscelli makes very diligently produced adapters for Contax lenses to be used with M-mount cameras:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zeiss-Contax-rangefinder-lenses-to-Leica-M3-M8-M9-adapter-ring/132573694453?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3Df3538c25d9fb4500afe1b470461f9c6b%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D7%26sd%3D362241336027%26itm%3D132573694453&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042

 

The price is not low but you can expect a quality product, which replaces the Contax focussing helicoid - as the lens has none, it is built just like a lenshead.

 

It works faultlessly with 50mm lenses, and you can use it with longer focal lengthes for the Contax, if you are willing to correct some front focus or use liveview.

 

At the moment I do not find an offering for the LTM- adapter by Amedeo, but I know he produced them as well. One can contact him directly if the present bad situation in Venezuela doesn‘t impede communication.

 

Using original Sonnars for the Contax gives you the advantage of a much larger second hand market with lower prices and you can be much surer that you get a „real“ Sonnar. There is not only the risk of many fakes for „Sonnars“ with LTM mount. The original versions with LTM built by Zeiss Jena were all wartime products when quality standards by Zeiss were very variable - to say the least. Most pieces were made of cheap alloy and their condition today is often very bad - notwithstanding high prices on the second hand market.

 

All post-war Sonnars from Carl Zeiss Jena, or from Zeiss-Opton or Carl Zeiss Oberkochen were coated. It is not clear whether there was a difference in the optical design between the East German version from Jena and the West-German version. I think both versions used the last optical design from pre-war or wartimes.

 

It is easy to discern between the versions: pre-war and wartime examples have serial numbers up to approximately 2.800.000 - anything over 2.400.000 being risky. Post war East German versions have numbers higher than 3.000.000 and are engraved Carl Zeiss Jena, „5cm“, West-German versions are engraved „50mm“, of course no „Jena“ with serial numbers from approx. 100.000 up to approx 1.800.000. Examples with numbers higher than 1.000.000 are to be preferred since the West German production had to learn everything from scratch and they needed some time to achieve the Jena standard.

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>>I picked up a Jupiter 3 with an LTM (M39) mount from 1954 in St Petersburg last week.<<

 

You must have chosen one of the ones I didn't take a few weeks earlier! I presume it was the tiny shop - booth really - in Gostiny Dvor? I had four or five Jupiter-3s to choose from, and there were two or three I would have been very happy with. The young guy in there was very helpful and spoke pretty good English (certainly much better than my Russian)  - I would be very happy to go back there. I haven't as yet had any chance to use my lens for the reason I bought it, portraits, but I have been very pleased with it on the few occasions I have managed to use it on my M10...... 

 

attachicon.gif2018-03-1001838.jpg

 

attachicon.gif2018-02-1001027-Edit.jpg

Yes it was in Gostiny Dvor, a little shop called Photo Lubitel (named after the Russian TLR). Max was the helpful young guy that I dealt with. I went through 3 or 4 samples before making my choice. I believe that the shop would be of interest to all Leica or Leica copy film and vintage enthusiasts. Anyone going to St Petersburg should seek out the shop which is very near to the main Nevsky Prospekt shopping area. It is always a pleasure to find such a place while you are on holiday. I had a similar experience in Bergen in Norway some years ago where I came across a shop run by an Italian photographer who was selling vintage Leica film equipment. How I found the shop on this occasion was that a young guy on our tour group asked me if I knew where he could get film for his Lomo camera and I did a quick online search. There's still some hope for the 'iPhone generation'. I showed him the Jupiter turret finder and he declared it to be 'cool'.

 

William

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About the adapters made by Amadeo. They are excellent build quality. I have 2 of the contax-ltm parts. He tried to convince me to go with the M adapter which he said were better, don't recall how.

 

There's a compiled list of lenses that work properly with the adapters, maybe RF.

 

The one problem I had with the adapters was with collapsible contax lenses it was pretty difficult to get them into fixed and extended position without unscrewing the adapter. Like the collapsible 5cm for example and the Tessars too. Consequently I haven't used them too much. Have a pretty nice Iia as well as a Nikon s2 (aware of nikon/contax differences but its pretty hard to see them) for those lenses. Although for me the Nikon contax cameras are more difficult to operate.

Edited by mickjazz
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I had read a post on RFF from Amadeo that he has moved to the United States. Here is the posting he made recently

 

Greetings dear members, I has moved to Miami, FL in the United States in 2016 where have a CNC shop for to cut panels for kitchen and closet makers, I virtually have lost all my properties in my country, can't sell them, everybody is selling and running out, so I am starting over here.

I still keep my shop working in Venezuela, for two years I have trained a very capable CNC machinist for to make the adapters for me, hope to keep the production there a couple of years before to move the production here.

Regards,

Amedeo Muscelli

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I have one of Amedeo's very early Contax to Leica M adapters. I too really wanted a Contax to LTM but he admitted there might be a problem with them and persuaded me to buy an M one. As others have said, they are beautifully made but...... the coding pits on mine are incorrectly aligned, nearly one whole pit out. I suspect he may have worked from that incorrect PDF file which was around on the LUF, soon after the M8 came out. I hope he has now corrected this error. I sent him a correct drawing for the coding pits. 

 

Wilson

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