Summilux-M 75mm – What can I expect?

[SiggiGun]

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Focus shift is related to distance. So if you ask for f/1.4, Leica will take a "average" distance, par exemple 3m or 5m.  Historically lenses are was optimized only for "infinite". Now with ASPH and floating elements, they can also build lenses with good results in the near focus area. A good exemple is the APO90 and APO75 on M. The APO90 is 1 of the best lens ever build but in the near distance <2m the lens performance is not excellent. Interesting to see also, Leica is now publishing data sheets for SL lenses with near and infinite distance focus. This shows the progress in optical design. The famous 75LUX is neather ASPH nor Floating. It is a "classical" design.... with unique caracter.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/siggigun/56n289

 

Enjoy your lens

    

[edstock]

Adding my own experiences of owning a summilux 75 f1.4, all I can say are positive things. It has traveled with me in the USA and with me to Europe. One time shooting the opera in Verona Italy, staged in the Roman coliseum. Outdoors and of course night. A daunting task for any lens, my 75 did ok. Never had any problems, focusing smooth as ever.

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[patashnik]

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I just received a Leica 75mm Summilux-M which has the same problem: It backfocuses at least ten cm at 2-3 meter distance on my M11. With live view it is absolutely drop dead gorgeous, but after reading about the ordeal some have had going several rounds with Leica to have them adjust it, I'm just not sure what to do. The price was good (less than $2000), and I can always return it (bought used from a photo store). Does anyone know how much Leica charges for this these days? An option could be to just get the Visoflex 2 I guess.

[evikne]

34 minutes ago, patashnik said:

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I just received a Leica 75mm Summilux-M which has the same problem: It backfocuses at least ten cm at 2-3 meter distance on my M11. With live view it is absolutely drop dead gorgeous, but after reading about the ordeal some have had going several rounds with Leica to have them adjust it, I'm just not sure what to do. The price was good (less than $2000), and I can always return it (bought used from a photo store). Does anyone know how much Leica charges for this these days? An option could be to just get the Visoflex 2 I guess.

Less than $2000 seems like a very good price, even if you also have to pay for a service. I paid about $230 for the service five years ago, but only on first submission. The others were free. Prices may have risen somewhat since then though.

Unfortunately I had to sell my lens because I needed the money. I miss it a lot and will buy it back if I ever get the chance.

[RexGig0]

1 hour ago, patashnik said:

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I just received a Leica 75mm Summilux-M which has the same problem: It backfocuses at least ten cm at 2-3 meter distance on my M11. With live view it is absolutely drop dead gorgeous, but after reading about the ordeal some have had going several rounds with Leica to have them adjust it, I'm just not sure what to do. The price was good (less than $2000), and I can always return it (bought used from a photo store). Does anyone know how much Leica charges for this these days? An option could be to just get the Visoflex 2 I guess.

I visited a camera store, that is a Leica dealer, which had a very well-preserved, pre-owned 75mm Summilux available for sale. An employee advised me that 75mm Summilux lenses do tend to back-focus. I tried this lens, on my M10, and was able to confirm that the back-focus was consistent, and that I could, carefully, compensate for it, if I had the time, and could “focus bracket” by shooting two or three exposures. Another “cheat” was to have my intended subject hold a cola can, in front of her, enabling me to rangefinder-focus on the cola can, for a resulting sharp focus on her face. If I recall correctly, I visited several times, to test-shoot with this 75mm Summilux, and so very nearly bought it.

Sometimes, I still regret not buying it, along with a Visoflex 020. (This was long before the Visoflex 2 was introduced.)

Edited January 25, 2023 by RexGig0

[patashnik]

Thank you for the answers, and I feel your pain, @evikne for having to sell it after going through that process. I just spoke to the dealer, and they will send the lens to Leica and foot the bill. Hard to argue with that. 

[Harout62]

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On 1/25/2023 at 9:49 AM, patashnik said:

Thank you for the answers, and I feel your pain, @evikne for having to sell it after going through that process. I just spoke to the dealer, and they will send the lens to Leica and foot the bill. Hard to argue with that. 

Wow for under 2000 dollars ? And they will flip the bill to send it to Germany... you have won the lottery my friend.. considering the 75 Summilux sells for 3500+ us and over 5000 Cnd.   

[01af]

Am 25.1.2023 um 14:33 schrieb RexGig0:

An employee advised me that 75 mm Summilux lenses do tend to back-focus.

Sure—any M lens may back-focus when not properly adjusted, and the Summilux-M 75 mm is no exception. But it doesn't 'tend' to back-focus more (or less) than any other M lens.

I bought mine a couple of years ago from someone who bought it from the original owner, so I am the third owner. The lens focuses just fine on any M camera I used it on.

[lct]

4 minutes ago, 01af said:

The lens focuses just fine on any M camera I used it on.

+1

[LocalHero1953]

I have just seen this thread. I have just packaged up my Summilux-M 75 to be sent for 6-bit coding by Skyllaney in Scotland. In my earlier exchange with them, I was told:

"these lenses are notorious for being calibration compromised. What this means is, their effective focal lengths often do not match the helicoid exactly (on purpose), which results in usually the lens focusing accurately at either infinity or close distances, but not both; and this is how Leica set them up to try and balance out their focus shift. If using film, often this is not much an issue as film is often forgiving.  With digital, the issue is seriously magnified and can be an annoyance to some. The good thing is the later digital M’s have live-view/ EVF attachments that can permit the critical focus. With that said, at best, usually the 75mm Summilux can be optimized for a certain aperture and distance range (say f/1.4 at close to mid distances). As you close the aperture down to f/2.8 or so, the focus shift could then be utilized to get the far distances/ infinity subjects accurately in focus. Its not really possible to get the 75mm Summilux say focus accurately from 0.8m to Infinity at apertures f/1.4 thru f/16."

I have taken up their offer to check and recalibrate the lens for near-mid distances, as that is what I would be using it for.

Edited February 22, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[RexGig0]

10 hours ago, 01af said:

Sure—any M lens may back-focus when not properly adjusted, and the Summilux-M 75 mm is no exception. But it doesn't 'tend' to back-focus more (or less) than any other M lens.

I bought mine a couple of years ago from someone who bought it from the original owner, so I am the third owner. The lens focuses just fine on any M camera I used it on.

To be clear, I was simply reporting what this particular employee told me. I claim no expertise. The employee may have had an ulterior motive for saying this. I thought that he might have been acting as an “apologist,” to encourage me to buy it, anyway, perhaps to use it with a Visoflex, but, then, his tone and expression indicated that he seemed to be discouraging me from buying the lens. 

[LocalHero1953]

On 2/22/2023 at 9:50 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

I have just seen this thread. I have just packaged up my Summilux-M 75 to be sent for 6-bit coding by Skyllaney in Scotland. In my earlier exchange with them, I was told:

"these lenses are notorious for being calibration compromised. What this means is, their effective focal lengths often do not match the helicoid exactly (on purpose), which results in usually the lens focusing accurately at either infinity or close distances, but not both; and this is how Leica set them up to try and balance out their focus shift. If using film, often this is not much an issue as film is often forgiving.  With digital, the issue is seriously magnified and can be an annoyance to some. The good thing is the later digital M’s have live-view/ EVF attachments that can permit the critical focus. With that said, at best, usually the 75mm Summilux can be optimized for a certain aperture and distance range (say f/1.4 at close to mid distances). As you close the aperture down to f/2.8 or so, the focus shift could then be utilized to get the far distances/ infinity subjects accurately in focus. Its not really possible to get the 75mm Summilux say focus accurately from 0.8m to Infinity at apertures f/1.4 thru f/16."

I have taken up their offer to check and recalibrate the lens for near-mid distances, as that is what I would be using it for.

Skyllaney has now checked my lens: it was already optimised for near-mid, wide-open focusing, so no further adjustment is needed for my needs - just 6-bit coding.

Interesting other comments for those interested in such things: it focuses sharp at infinity at the hard infinity stop, though the RF patch would not be aligned; at mid-distances, focusing is quite well out at 2.8-5.6 compared to the RF patch (at f/8 and smaller the DoF covers any problems); this behaviour he describes as characteristic of a Sonnar formula.

I can imagine the thoughts going through Walter Mandler's mind when faced with a lens design that behaves in that way: "How do we fit this into a helicoid so it works more or less well enough that the Leica User Forum membership doesn't send it back en masse for recalibration, chuntering about Leica QC as they do so?"🙂

Edited February 23, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[egrossman]

FWIW my late production 75mm Summilux that I purchased used from Fredmiranda.com more than a decade ago came factory 6-bit coded and has always been sharp. I've never had problems discussed in this thread. Serial number 3977xxx. Perhaps it's worth holding out for later production batches of this lens. Mine was manufactured in 2004; the last year of production was 2007 (according tot he Wiki).

I just posted an example from this lens on the other thread: 

Erik

Edited February 23, 2023 by egrossman

[Harout62]

I have had 3 versions of this lens in the past 30 years or so, I can’t speak for the first one because it was so long ago, but my current copy and the previous one was spot on never had any issue. 

[sarav]

Had 7 (seven) versions and all had problems

[Laharrier]

This is an engineering feature of this lens. Due to focus shift in this lens formula based on the changing depth of field, the lens was deigned to reach optimal focus at the center of the aperture scale. More modern lens designs have corrected for this but as you know the 75 Lux is an older design. I have this same issue on my 50 luxes and was told explicitly by Don Goldberg (who used to manufacture these lenses for Leica) that it’s a trade off. If you want it to be calibrated for larger apertures you will sacrifice calibration in the more commonly used sections of the range upwards of 5.6. On my lenses which have this feature I just pull focus ever so slightly when focusing up close at larger apertures, although admittedly 10cm is a very significant amount of shift. 10mm of focus shift would be more like the typical effect seen on this lens. 

[patashnik]

Just a quick update, the lens arrived back today (about 4,5 month turnaround), and I'm happy to report that it is focusing beautifully (as far as I@ve managed to test it). They took care of the bill, as promised. For those of you in the Bergen region (Norway) I can recommend Foto.no. An added bonus is that your Euro/USD/GBP (and pretty much every other currency) will take you quite a bit further if you decide to visit us!

[Stein K S]

A short story about how the luxˋs off-focus tendency saved me from GAS. I found myself in a photo shop in Nice, my wife spending time in an other store close by. Then the owner picked up a copy of this lux 75. And GAS was coming. However, doing a few snaps, that copy showed to be more off focus than I have ever experienced with any other lens. Was it even damaged? Anyway, I ended up facing my wife with good conscious 😉

Obviously no statistical value in this experience though…