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Leica APS-C vs. Leica-M43


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A friend asked how Leica TL APS-C compares to Leica M43. Anyone has first hand experience?

He is actually comparing the Leica CL + 18-56mm + 11-23mm + 55-135mm with Lumix C9 + Leica 8-18mm + Leica 12-60mm + Leica 50-200mm.

 

The easy anwaser is price and size.

-- price

------ The about APS-C set costs about US$6000 (HK grey market ) or US$8000 (US B&H),

------ the above M43 set costs about $6000 (HK grey market or US B&H, same price).

-- weight and size

------ The total weight, APS-C ~= 1500g; M43~= 1900g. (yes M43 is heavier).  

------ APS-C has larger sense ameraler aperturel but M43 has larger aperture (f2.8~4)

 

 

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Leica M4/3?? That does not exist. It is Panasonic using (very nice) Panaleica lenses. Owning both the Panasonic and Leica CL systems I think that this is no comparison.

The Panasonic is very good for an MFT system, but the CL manages to produce images that can hold their own against the Leica full-frame offerings.

I will use the Panasonic GX8 as a backup for the CL and as a prime camera when I need long stabilized lenses or 4K features like pre-release bursts of post-focus. Very happy to do so too. For daily use the CL - no question.

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I have used Lumix G5 + Lumix Zooms before, while there is a good reason at that time and at that price,  to me they are excellent advanced P&S. Not sure about now as there are many Leica labelled lenses, purposely to differentiate from the Lumix series. 

 

It also seems Panasonic is intentionally favoring the Lumix series and put the Leica series lens in disadvantage, for example, many new cameras are kitted with the Lumix version of the 12-60mm with very good price that almost saying do not buy the Leica version 12-60mm. This makes my friend think that the Lumux Leica lenses may actually carry genuine Leica genes. 

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[...] It also seems Panasonic is intentionally favoring the Lumix series and put the Leica series lens in disadvantage, for example, many new cameras are kitted with the Lumix version of the 12-60mm with very good price that almost saying do not buy the Leica version 12-60mm. This makes my friend think that the Lumux Leica lenses may actually carry genuine Leica genes. 

 

I don't understand sorry. Do you mean there are two versions of the 12-60, one Panasonic and one Leica? I thought there was only one Panaleica lens but i may be wrong.

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I have used Lumix G5 + Lumix Zooms before, while there is a good reason at that time and at that price,  to me they are excellent advanced P&S. Not sure about now as there are many Leica labelled lenses, purposely to differentiate from the Lumix series. 

 

It also seems Panasonic is intentionally favoring the Lumix series and put the Leica series lens in disadvantage, for example, many new cameras are kitted with the Lumix version of the 12-60mm with very good price that almost saying do not buy the Leica version 12-60mm. This makes my friend think that the Lumux Leica lenses may actually carry genuine Leica genes. 

I don't know about genes. I have yet to see the DNA profile of a lens. ;)

The procedure is thus: The Panasonic designers visit Leica's lens design department and their proposed lens is discussed. They return to Japan and Leica's proposed refinements are implemented. The process is repeated several times until a prototype is agreed upon and made. When it passes Leica's tests it is approved to carry the Leica brand and goes into production in Japan.

 

I think there may be other reasons to provide  Panasonic kit lenses. Leica 4/3rd lenses are classed as "professional" by Panasonic. I don't think any manufacturer provides camera kit sets with their top-of-the-line lenses.

The exception being Leica. They have only one level of lens for their APS series.

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The Leica lenses are as good as any real Leica lens; the Panasonic ones quite good but clearly in a lower class.

 

Are you saying Leica M43 lenses are as good as Leica APS-C lenses? You confused us. Not sure I got your point in your early post, which seemed suggest that Lumix with Leica M43 lenses are inferior. Please clarify.  

I agree with Stephengv, if you own both system, some detailed image comparison would be very useful.

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I think you are missing the point, by trying to compare the incomparable. On all systems, the Leica and Leica-branded lenses are the best available. However, as they are used on different format sensors, the end result of the lens and sensor combination will differ. The Internet JPGs are useless for comparison purposes.

 

Take this image. Impossible to tell which camera it was taken with: full-frame with 600 mm? Not really; it would have been near-impossible hand-held. In fact, it was the GX8 with DG Vario-Elmar 100-400. 5 EV stops, 5 axis stabilized @ 800 mm equivalent. . On the Internet and at reasonable print size the best combination. However, were one to print  larger than A3, a full-frame camera on a solid tripod would clearly win out. Horses for courses.

 

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Apart from the sensor ratio, if one chooses the best lenses available then I don't think there's a difference that's noticeable in the real world. My PenF with a 25mm 1.2 and the PL 12-60 is more likely to travel with me for the faster shutter speeds and IBIS than the CL, zoom and 35mm. I prefer the CL operation and layout but I'm unlikely to see any real difference in the image quality. There are more situations where IBIS will improve image quality than a ever so slightly better lens. Some of the m43 lenses are stunning, especially the 1.2 series and the Oly pro zooms. The Panaleicas aren't better but they draw differently. If you come from Leica you'll appreciate it. I really like the PL12-60 and 100-400.

 

I definitely don't agree that the CL matches Leicas 24x36mm offerings. I have those and it doesn't.

 

Gordon

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A friend asked how Leica TL APS-C compares to Leica M43. Anyone has first hand experience?

He is actually comparing the Leica CL + 18-56mm + 11-23mm + 55-135mm with Lumix C9 + Leica 8-18mm + Leica 12-60mm + Leica 50-200mm.

 

The easy anwaser is price and size.

-- price

------ The about APS-C set costs about US$6000 (HK grey market ) or US$8000 (US B&H),

------ the above M43 set costs about $6000 (HK grey market or US B&H, same price).

-- weight and size

------ The total weight, APS-C ~= 1500g; M43~= 1900g. (yes M43 is heavier).  

------ APS-C has larger sense ameraler aperturel but M43 has larger aperture (f2.8~4)

 

The IQ, including noise, DR and ability to take editing is not nearly as good on M4/3s

 

Some M43/s fanatics will swear otherwise

 

For me, the biggest advantage of M4/3s is for long telephoto in good light, e.g. Safari, simply as the kit is so lightweight and the E-M1 II is such a speed monster. A fantastic bit of kit.

 

But if you want IQ I'm afraid its not the way to go

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Normally a question like this comes from hobbists, rarely from professional. So it should be handled with this in mind.

 

For hobbists, a camera system like these are toys, semi-luxury toys. But people do care if it is the best buy by any standard that he or she needs the suggestion, preferably by the professional knowledge but not necessary the professional attitudes.

Perhaps the best answer is some pictures that can reasonably point out the difference and let people to decide whether it is important.

 

I donot own any Leica-M43 lenses, some helps from capable people are very appreciated.

 

.

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