Summar CLA

[jc_braconi]

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As I seen a lot of post and comments about the Summar lenses in this moment I think I can share some picts about doing a CLA for them,
without special tools like beryllium clams or others but using rubber bands for best grip and some good screws drivers.
I will try to post in a good sequence to avoid to much speech.
Fig 01 and 02 : after removing the front tiny screw unscrew the front ring helped by the rubber bands.
Fig 03 another tiny screw to remove and take apart the diaphragm ring
Fig 04-05 show the removing of the rear ring 
Fig 6 shows the three screws to remove to dismantle the focusing parts

Fig 7 shows the parts in bath; I use lighter fluid or F gasoline
Fig 8 shows all the parts cleaned and dried ready to be lubricate before reassembling
I use personally grease for molds that support high temperature but a lot of lubricants are available
I took this picts for helping myself to reassemble the parts,when I done it the first time and was not for a didactic goal
but I hope it can be of some help. 
 

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[jerzy]

Nice and crisp description! Let me add few comments and tips based on my experience from opening and cleaning >50 Summars. I will refer and sometimes reuse JCs photos (JC, I hope you do not mind).

 

In order to remove and clean aperture ring both first and second optical have to be removed. They are screwed one into another (and fixed with the tiny screw, 3^rd photo) The group of both elements is screwed into the lens tube, while the thread is on the 2^nd element (fig 2). Very often, after removing the tiny screw and unscrewing the elements I ended up in the situation like fig 3 – first element unscrewed and 2^nd sitting firm in the tube. You do not have a good grip to remove 2^nd separately, therefore in such situation you will have to screw in 1^st element again, insert the tiny screw and unscrew the group. Separating 1^st and 2^nd will be easier then. Remark: black rim Summars have different mechanical construction, it is enough to remove 1st element only to reach the aperture ring.

Watch the markings on the mount of 2^nd element showing where the screw shall be (fig 3). There is only one mark on JC photo, but I have seen lenses with more than mark, possibly as a result of repair, collimation, etc. Therefore, before you unscrew the 1^st element note the position of the screw in relation to engravings on aperture ring, this help to find the correct position of 1^st element when assembling.

Before removing aperture ring watch the position of aperture engravings in relation to the arrows engraved on lens barrel, aperture ring may be inserted as well turned 180 degree and you will end up with aperture engraving in the bottom when lens mounted on camera.

Do not turn the lens upside down when optics and aperture ring removed! The inner aperture ring is loose and may fall out. In unlucky situation as well some aperture blades may fall out, assembling them is tricky, requires patience and lot of time. In case you need to remove blades to clean them I may provide you (PM) with instructions how to assembly.

Black ring at the rear of lens barrel. (fig 5). There is a tiny screw fixing it to the lens barrels, usually you will have no problem to see the mark through the hole. But – some of previously repaired lenses have more than one mark. Therefore, before you unscrew the ring make a scratch on it showing the position of the hole, if incorrectly mounted it may have impact on proper focus.

Helicoid. In order to get to it you will need to unscrew the cap. Cap has two cutouts where you can insert a tool if unscrewing with rubber, as JC described will not work. Problem is that with the regular tools (lens wrench) you may easily make some scratches on plating. For this reason I have machined a simple tool (using a broken clam wrench). Note rounded pins which firmly fit into the cutouts in the cap.

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When handling with the mount be careful not to bend the ring marked A below – you might have serious difficulties with screwing in the cap again.

Collapsible Summar has non-rotating mount, when you turn the focus the lens barrel stays in the same position. This is accomplished through the ring marked B. Ring is prevented from rotation through the brass clamp on the left side. Sticky grease between the ring and mount will make focusing difficult. It is advised to remove the ring, wash out old grease and apply new one. Ring B is fixed with the small brass ring C which may be removed using lens wrench. Watch out the position of black mark on the ring B, arrow pointing to it. This marks shows how the lens barrel shall be turned for retracting. Ring B may be mounted as well turned by 180 degree but you will end up with arrows (and aperture engravings) down when lens mounted on the camera. Position of this ring, in relation to focusing button shall be like it is on JC photo above.

And finally to the arrows on the lens barrel – as mentioned lens retracts when axial arrow is in line with the marking on ring B. Is it not the case you need to loosen 3 tiny screws on lens barrel and rotate the front part of lens barrel to match.

 

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[Ambro51]

......so easy a five year old could do it. ;-)

[wlaidlaw]

I think I may leave mine to be done by Alan Starkie. I have a horror of that "whoops" moment, where a heap of disassembled parts drop out onto the table, with springs pinging off into the sunset  

 

Alan has bought a vacuum deposition plant and is going to build a microwave frequency driver, so that he can then offer sputtered hard lens coatings. Given that I bought my IIIa, Summar and Mooly as a tribute to my father, it would be even more correct if I had my Summar coated, like he had done in 1948. 

 

Wilson

[alemartinezc]

Is there any tutorial about cleaning a collapsible LTM Summicron?

Thanks.

[ironringer]

Thank you jc_braconi and jerzy for sharing this useful information. You are both "fearless" and capable Leica knowledge sources, always interesting for us. Someday I hope to try working on one of those lenses myself.

[jerzy]

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Is there any tutorial about cleaning a collapsible LTM Summicron?

Thanks.

In somethng like 2-3 weeks i will be working on one, i can prepre photos and write down steps If you wish Edited March 27, 2018 by jerzy

[alemartinezc]

Thank you Jerzy. It would be great to have more information about the Summicron.

[wlaidlaw]

In somethng like 2-3 weeks i will be working on one, i can prepre photos and write down steps If you wish

 

Then all I would need would be some brave pills. 

[Cariad2]

Just purchased a summar with seized aperture ring. I dismantled and front elements and had to take out the blades. to reseat. This required 5 attempts to reposition the alternate leaf blades. A magnetised sewing needle aided the refit process, not for the faint hearted.

Can you unscrew the helicoid cap to clean out old grease without separating barrel from base

[zeitz]

On 3/25/2018 at 4:40 AM, jerzy said:

In unlucky situation as well some aperture blades may fall out, assembling them is tricky, requires patience and lot of time

I have often wondered how long it took the folks at Leitz who originally assembled these lenses to put the aperture blades in place.

[pgk]

6 hours ago, zeitz said:

I have often wondered how long it took the folks at Leitz who originally assembled these lenses to put the aperture blades in place.

In the 1890s when aperture diaphragms were the 'new best thing', London Lens maker Wray built a machine specifically to make aperture blades. My guess is that they also employed someone to fit them, from what I have read. Practice probably makes, if not perfect, quicker assembly! Like anything I'd guess that there is a technique to assembling them but, from my few attempts, I have no idea what it is.

[DOM RAY]

On 3/25/2018 at 8:40 PM, jerzy said:

 

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 Ring B is fixed with the small brass ring C which may be removed using lens wrench. Watch out the position of black mark on the ring B, arrow pointing to it. This marks shows how the lens barrel shall be turned for retracting.

 

 

Hi there Jerzy.  An old thread I know but I recently have purchased a Summar which is in desperate need of getting its focusing threads cleaned and re-lubed.  Your description above appears to be the only guidance I can find on the web of someone who has gotten into the actual helicoid.  I have disassembled as far as the photos above but for the life of me I am unable to remove the "small brass ring C" which you mentioned.   Is the Arrow C pointing to the yellow/brown outer ring?  I used a lens wrench but it just doesn't seem to turn?  Any further guidance/tips you can provide will be most appreciated.   Kind Rgds.

[jerzy]

hi, maybe this photo will be more clear. Ring B (this is where lens tube is sitting) if being held by ring C, darker one. Ring C screws into brigther ring, brighter ring is part of the mount.
Ring B shall rotate freely, practicaly with no resitance. Ring C shall be screwed thatr much that ring B still rotates freely but does not wobble. So it must not be screwed  too strong. In order to secure ring C in this position it is hard fixed, bright ring is pressed into the slot within ring C. This is marked by orange arrow on the photo below. In order to unscrew ring C you need free the slot, bent the bright ring. Then try to unscrew, thread is normal, righthand. If you cannot unscrew it and ring B does not rotate freely you need to wash out the dirt by bathing the whole mount in washing benzin. Then apply oil between ring B and C. But if ring B rotates freely and does not wobble leave it as it is

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Edited April 17, 2022 by jerzy

[DOM RAY]

19 hours ago, jerzy said:

hi, maybe this photo will be more clear. Ring B (this is where lens tube is sitting) if being held by ring C, darker one. Ring C screws into brigther ring, brighter ring is part of the mount.
Ring B shall rotate freely, practicaly with no resitance. Ring C shall be screwed thatr much that ring B still rotates freely but does not wobble. So it must not be screwed  too strong. In order to secure ring C in this position it is hard fixed, bright ring is pressed into the slot within ring C. This is marked by orange arrow on the photo below. In order to unscrew ring C you need free the slot, bent the bright ring. Then try to unscrew, thread is normal, righthand. If you cannot unscrew it and ring B does not rotate freely you need to wash out the dirt by bathing the whole mount in washing benzin. Then apply oil between ring B and C. But if ring B rotates freely and does not wobble leave it as it is
 

 

Thanks Jerzy for taking the time.  Unfortuantely I just can't unscrew ring C on mine.  I tried bathing the mount in lighter fluid and using sewing machine oil but ring B is still too tight.  It does turn full circle, but very very stiff and jerky.  I think the only way mine can be fixed is to somehow get ring C off- it won't even budge.  I'm thinking now this issue with mine is not dirt/hardened grease, but rather the metal is bent/damaged such that C is screwed too tight and can't be removed?    If you happen to already have a photo of ring C detached that would be great so I know what to look for.  Otherwise no worries- thanks for all your help so far.

[jerzy]

Hi, I found a photo, not the best but may give you more insight

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left photo shows ring B dismounted from the mount, ring C which is fixing B comes where orange arrow shows. Ring C which has therad outside screws into mount (right photo, green arrow). As mentioned earlier thread is pressed into slits on ring C so you have to free it before unscrewing. But it could be still very stiff to unscrew. Try with WD40, to put it on the C where the thread it, maybe it will help. Usually I avoid to use WD40 or similar, but somethimes you have no choice. But make sure that you  wash it out carefully afterwards, before you apply grease/oil. Btw. I could nopt find any photo showing ring C

[DOM RAY]

On 4/19/2022 at 1:17 AM, jerzy said:

Hi, I found a photo, not the best but may give you more insight

left photo shows ring B dismounted from the mount, ring C which is fixing B comes where orange arrow shows. Ring C which has therad outside screws into mount (right photo, green arrow). As mentioned earlier thread is pressed into slits on ring C so you have to free it before unscrewing. But it could be still very stiff to unscrew. Try with WD40, to put it on the C where the thread it, maybe it will help. Usually I avoid to use WD40 or similar, but somethimes you have no choice. But make sure that you  wash it out carefully afterwards, before you apply grease/oil. Btw. I could nopt find any photo showing ring C

Thanks Jerzy for the very clear images and descriptions.  Yes I believe I will need WD40- and will get some on my next hardwareshop run as I have run out.  In the mean time I have discovered a temporary hack.  Basically I removed the entire brass ring which has the 2 indents which moves the inner-helicoid.  By removing that ring altogether and closing back up the lens, it by-passes the inner helicoid (which mine is stuck/jammed) and instead uses the outer helicoid.  My lens now focuses very smoothly and is still RF accurate.  It's not ideal though because if I'm not careful I can unscrew the whole lens when focusing closer than 1m.  But as s temporary hack it works for now.   Rgds

[Herbertus]

HI,
I came across the article here because I own a 50 summar which urgently needs cleaning.
 The problem is that I can't separate the 1st and 2nd lenses.
 Does anyone happen to have a trick/idea on how to solve this? 
(Rubber bands or tongues have already been tried)

Edited May 8, 2022 by Herbertus

[jc_braconi]

Hi I suppose you already remove the little screw ?

Next you will need beryllium pliers to not damage the mount.

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[Herbertus]

Yes the Screw was already removed.
Is there an alternitive to beryllium pliers, because i dont have laying one arround in my house ( as far as i know ) and on Sunday, at least here, shops are closed😅

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Herbertus