Best black paint for refilling engraving?

[wlaidlaw]

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I have a number of chrome Leica items, where the paint in the engraving needs improvement. What do folks think is the best way and best materials? My thoughts are as follows:

 

1) Clean out any loose or flaking paint with pointed bamboo skewers. Then degrease with iso propyl alcohol. Alternatively wipe very carefully with a lintless cloth with a tiny amount of acetone on it, making sure not to get any acetone on any other part except where you are redoing the paint filling.

 

2) Use a fine  pointed tip good quality "tracer" brush like this https://www.greatart.co.uk/raphael-symbiose-tracer-brush-series-8020.html together with Tamiya enamel paint in either  X1 gloss black or X15 semi-gloss black. While the paint is still tacky, wipe off any excess with a lintless cloth wrapped round a wooden dowel. Finish off, when the paint is fully dry and hard (at least a couple of days) with a brown artists eraser to clean up the chrome round the engraving. Note for very fine work, I have found Tamiya paints flow better than Humbrol or Revell, when I have been model making. 

 

3) Alternatively use an Edding 780 0.8mm fine black paint pen http://www.edding.com/creating-and-decorating/products/gloss-paint-marker/edding-780-gloss-paint-marker/  Again clean off the excess when still slightly tacky, as above and finish with an artists eraser. 

 

Any other tips would be very welcome. I have a couple of old non-Leica items to practice on, as it is many years since I last did this. 

 

Wilson

[Ambro51]

I think you’ve got some excellent idea, all I could add is to wear good magnifying glasses for this fine work and don’t do it on an excessively humid day.

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[pico]

Wilson, I have done such for a long time. I use a round toothpick as the first pass to remove the lettering paint, followed by a cotton tip with acetone. Do not worry if a faint residue of the original paint shows - it is highly cured and stable, a good base. Then use this, specifically, Lacquer-Stick. When you get it, peel back a bit of the paper wrapper and rub the exposed end on clean paper until it softens, then rub the stick into the lettering. Wipe away the excess with a tissue within a few minutes.. Let it be for a day so that the paint cures. It is great stuff.

Edited March 23, 2018 by pico

[Gobert]

I would recommend the car paint you can buy to touch up small paint damages to your car. It dries quit quickly and is strong. Buy a non glossy one.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Gobert

[250swb]

The Lacquer-Stick is the way to go, after all filling engravings is what it is meant for. As Pico says, rub it on and wipe off the excess. The stick is a slow drying waxy oil paint, hence the need to remove the dried surface by rubbing and expose fresh paint underneath. When in the engraving the paint gradually dries but the lens can be used immediately. 

[wlaidlaw]

I think you’ve got some excellent idea, all I could add is to wear good magnifying glasses for this fine work and don’t do it on an excessively humid day.

 

I have a multi magnification illuminated jeweller's head set. Makes life much easier for fine work. 

[wlaidlaw]

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Thanks folks. I have ordered black and white lacquer sticks from Micro-Tools Europe, with whom I have an account (an excellent source of camera and lens tools). Much less messy than pots of paint and brushes. Art was never my strong suit at school. 

 

Wilson

[pico]

Just be sure to peel-back a little of the paper and rub until it is is soft, compliant.

I'm sure you will like the outcome. (Imagine, some people charge $ for the same!)

[dkCambridgeshire]

STAEDTLER Fine tipped Permanent Black pen should do a good job. I could not see the white numerals / letters clearly on my M6 Titanium so 'blacked them' with STAEDTLER Fine Permanent Black. After 25 years the black had not worn off and when sold the buyer was pleased with his unusual 'M6 Titanium 'variant'. When I tried to remove the 'black' prior to sale it would not budge … tried iso propyl alcohol and lighter fluid. Iso propyl will remove freshly applied STAEDTLER ink. 

 

dunk

Edited March 26, 2018 by dkCambridgeshire

[wlaidlaw]

Dunk, 

 

If it was just the lens lettering, I think a Staedler pen would be fine. I have a pack with 5 different size pens of the very similar Mitsubishi indelible black variety, from 0.3mm up to 2mm. However the main job I want to do, is to fill in the "Leica" engravings on various items, where in the past, I did not get a good look with a permanent marker pen. 

 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

Does anyone have any thoughts about how long to leave paint stick after application before wiping off? I have bought black and white paint sticks. I just tried on the rather faded engraving on my Reid and Sigrist, wiping off immediately after application and all the paint came out of the engraving, with very little apparent improvement. Someone else told me that you have to scratch most of the old paint out from the engraving with an engraver's needle (a pointed steel tool in a wooden handle) before reapplying to provide a "key" for the new paint to hold in the engraving. 

 

Wilson

[jerzy]

Wilson,

on chromed vameras I am washing out old paint with harder brush, you may use as well wodden toothpick. I would not use steel needle, it is pretty easy to produce scratches. And if old paint sticks so good that you would need steel needle to remove it just leave it, new paint stick better to old paintr than to chrome plated surfaces.

I do not know Staedler, I tried once with Super Black Flat Black pen (bought at Micro Tools). It is very good for painting edges of glass in lenses but I did not found it very usefull for engreavings, dries too quickly and does not stick very good. My best experience is with acryl based paints (Humbroll, Revell). I am aplying it with toothpick, pretty thick. Immediately, with another, clean toothpick I am removing excess paint, pressing a bit the paint into engravings. I let it dry to 3-5 minutes and again with wodden toothpick, removing further excess paint. Some smudges will remain. I let it dry for another 15-20 minutes and remove smudges with cotton dipped in washing petrol. Just surface, not pressing too much, otherwise you will wash out black paint.

[wlaidlaw]

Thanks Jerzy. I am using solid paint sticks from Micro-tools.de not Staedler pens. I think you are correct about pressing the paint into the engraving, which is what I did not do. I tried with my black model II and none of the white paint stuck in the engraving at all. The engraving is rather worn and quite shallow on that and even when new, I don't think it was ever as crisp as the engraving on my chromed cameras. 

 

Wilson

[jerzy]

Wilson, with black paint cameras it is a bit different. As far as I know the black paint used by Leitz was nitro lacquer. Micro Tools has toluene and ethyl acetate which could be pretty aggressive against black paint of camera. Yes, paint on black painted Leica is 60-80 years old and is quite resitant, still I would be cautious with Micro Tools or similar.

Acrylic paint is solvable with washing petrol which in turn does not harm original black paint. 

Shallow engraving on older black paint is a challenge, I was doing it in similar way like on chromed, but I did not wash out the smudges just removed them with toothpick. Pretty time consuming task :-)

[MarkP]

So to refresh an older topic,  I have a chrome  IIIf and Summitar that has lost some black lettering.
Do we have a consensus on what is the best process?

Edited October 27, 2021 by MarkP

[Al Brown]

1 hour ago, MarkP said:

So to refresh an older topic,  I have a chrome  IIIf and Summitar that has lost some black lettering.
Do we have a consensus on what is the best process?

I have successfully retouched all my worn out black-on-chrome and white-on-black chrome letterings & lens markings ranging from pre-war Barnacks, modern M cameras & used lenses (black paint and black chrome) with a tiny brush (the marking says 0 and 1 respecitvely)  & acrylic black/white paint. You can also use a syringe to micro dose the paint like Leica does in-house. Acrylic paint is solvable with water when fresh and with washing petrol as written above. Just wipe the excess off immediately after painting, I use an ultra fine cloth with a big coin wrapped inside to wipe the surface, thus avoiding catching the paint inside the engraved recessed parts.
Tons ov videos on the web on how to do it. There is virtually no wong way.

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Edited October 27, 2021 by Al Brown

[wlaidlaw]

I found the paint stick the easiest because I have nothing like steady enough hands to use the paint brush method. 

Wilson

[AresDerRuderer]

On 10/27/2021 at 10:14 AM, wlaidlaw said:

I found the paint stick the easiest because I have nothing like steady enough hands to use the paint brush method. 

Wilson

I would say the only real problem with the Lacquer stik method is colour stability. Black and yellow are fine, but red turns pink and white turns yellowish quite quickly. They will also never be as hard wearing as actual paint. The final rigity will be the same as the "skin" on the marker, which is easily scratchable with the fingernail.

[250swb]

On 10/28/2021 at 11:20 PM, AresDerRuderer said:

I would say the only real problem with the Lacquer stik method is colour stability. Black and yellow are fine, but red turns pink and white turns yellowish quite quickly. They will also never be as hard wearing as actual paint. The final rigity will be the same as the "skin" on the marker, which is easily scratchable with the fingernail.

The sticks are used in industry for marking up things like metal castings because hand painting is impractical and pens, chalk, etc. not hard wearing. The sticks are real paint, just mixed with a waxy substance instead of exclusively oil. The discolouration is the result of the oils evaporating from the infill to the surface as the paint dries, very much like tubes of artists oils can form a yellow build up around the nozzle. When this happens on the lens infill the paint underneath has finished drying and a wipe over with a slightly damp cloth with white spirit will restore the finish for years to come.

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[Ouroboros]

9 hours ago, 250swb said:

..... The discolouration is the result of the oils evaporating from the infill to the surface as the paint dries, very much like tubes of artists oils can form a yellow build up around the nozzle. When this happens on the lens infill the paint underneath has finished drying and a wipe over with a slightly damp cloth with white spirit will restore the finish for years to come.

The white script on the rear of the top plate of my BP MP has yellowed.   Would a damp cloth with white spirit also restore the white script?