1 EV darker photographs

[loverofthelight]

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Hello to everyone.

 

Recently I got my M10.  But I noticed that images are 1 or 0,5 EV darker at the same settings, same place, same conditions than images made with nikon d800 (sigma 35mm, nikon 50mm) or canon mkIII (sigma 50mm). Did anyone else noticed that? I'm using summicrons 35 an 50. 

 

Thanks to everyone. 

[jaapv]

Metering systems are different, the bias to protect highlights may be different, etc. It is very hard to compare exposure handling between different cameras and brands. Even if one manages to eliminate all variables, the compromise chosen by the designer will be different. 

It is always needed to get used to the exposure bias of a new camera, that was as much the case in the pre-digital days, even if the ISO norm for digital cameras is much less strict than it is for film.

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[blacksinner]

if you use the rangefinder optic its center weighted metering. so you have be careful in high contrast situation such as sky or window. if you use the live view the multi metering is available. so the metering will be balance across the frame. note that the multi metering is not available if the live vew is off. 

[erl]

I have, or have had, numerous high end exposure meters, not to mention the 'in camera' meters. I soon learned that trying to 'match them up' is pointless.

 

The real and only effective technique is to use, learn to understand and use your new 'devise' with confidence in its own ability to serve you. Trusting it is importatnt, but only when you know it's inbuilt bias. They all have bias. My current overlay bias on the M10 is to use -1/3 exposure compensation. Your personal preference may differ. Experiment. The result will be mostly consistent.

[nitrox1]

I use -1/3 exp comp as well on my m10.

 

 

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[elmars]

Hello to everyone.

 

Recently I got my M10.  But I noticed that images are 1 or 0,5 EV darker at the same settings, same place, same conditions than images made with nikon d800 (sigma 35mm, nikon 50mm) or canon mkIII (sigma 50mm). Did anyone else noticed that? I'm using summicrons 35 an 50. 

 

Thanks to everyone. 

 

 

It is my observation too, that the M10 exposes a bit too dark, perhaps 0,5 EV. Nearly the same with the M240/262. I think they make it, because You can push up dark tones easily but You cannot recover lost highlights.

[schattenundlicht]

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I very much appreciate

It is my observation too, that the M10 exposes a bit too dark, perhaps 0,5 EV. Nearly the same with the M240/262. I think they make it, because You can push up dark tones easily but You cannot recover lost highlights.

I very much appreciate the M10‘s bias towards slightly lower exposure for the very same reason. Out of the box it gives me less problems with (irrevocably) blown highlights than M9 or my Nikon DSLR. Of course, in difficult lighting situations you still have to adapt, as with any camera/ meter.

[Gobert]

I have the same experience, but I’ve considered it as a learning curve.

Nothing beats the accuracy of Nikon’s light metering (no reason to return to Nikon although).

[elmars]

I very much appreciate

I very much appreciate the M10‘s bias towards slightly lower exposure for the very same reason. Out of the box it gives me less problems with (irrevocably) blown highlights than M9 or my Nikon DSLR. Of course, in difficult lighting situations you still have to adapt, as with any camera/ meter.

 

 

So it is.

[250swb]

Like Erl says, -1/3 exposure set as standard and has been since the M9. This shouldn't really be a learning curve or 'Nikon is right and everybody else is wrong' because that assumes the photographer has always been a spectator, exposure manipulation and understanding how different meters read is as fundamental as focusing the camera. Taken one step further exposure and how to manipulate it is a key creative tool, and I've yet to see a Nikon with a menu setting for 'read my mind'. 

[pgk]

If you are shooting RAW files, exposure is dependant on your own requirements of each file. Its no longer the fixed entity that it once was. Trying to compare different systems and their RAW files is difficult - I have files from many cameras and each has its own characteristics. So its not about having a 'standardised' exposure any more, its about learning the characteristics of you specific camera's RAW files and adjusting exposure to obtain what you want out of them.

 

In the past metering and exposure was often about reproducing a mid-tone grey 'correctly' (18% reflectance card). Today its about ensuring the information in highlights and shadows reproduces as you want it too (within limits) and exposure needs to take into account how much data you capture in these areas and how much adjustment you are prepared to make to them and which is acceptable to you. Different manufacturers adopt different sensors and metering methods. So direct, simplistic comparisons are not very useful. Take some bracketed photos of the same subject and see which exposures allow you to achieve the results that you anticipate/want and take it from there.

[loverofthelight]

Thanks to everyone for answers. I actually figured out that the thing is in lenses. Same distance to the object at same aperture, summicron 50mm have smaller bokeh or little more DOF.  At f2 It's something like f2.5-2.8 on nikon 50mm. It's a little bit strange for expensive lens like that. Same story with 35mm. 

[jaapv]

I don't think that exposure has anything to do with DOF. Bokeh has no size.

 

The DOF characteristic and falloff is different for each and every lens. For each and every image at that, as subject structure and contrast are of decisive influence.

[loverofthelight]

For sure characteristic are different for every lens. But the only logical explanation is, if i'm not wrong, that summicron is at f2 something like nikon at f2,5-2.8. Because Images are 0,5-1 EV darker and also, the background is blurry at f2 something like nikon at f2.5-2.8. 

[erl]

loveofthelight,  I think you are making a mistake trying to compare cameras (or metereing systems) the way you are.

 

It seems you have your head around how your Nikons work. Great!

Now, start from scratch and get you head around how your M10 works. Don't expect it to compare to Nikon, or anything else. Just use it, get to understand it and accept it for what it can do (and not do) for you. To overstate my point, don't try to turn a screwdriver into a hammer!

[loverofthelight]

I've been using leicas for long time. But I noticed that lenses at same aperture are different and have darker exposure and dof is bigger . And I was wondering if anyone else noticed that or is maybe the problem in my lenses. It's the same thing with all apertures,( 2, 4, 5.6, 8, 11, 16). In comparison with canon/nikon/sigma lenses is there always 1 stop darker and have DOF  the same as 1 stop lower aperture on other lenses. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by loverofthelight

[willeica]

I've been using leicas for long time. But I noticed that lenses at same aperture are different and have darker exposure and dof is bigger . And I was wondering if anyone else noticed that or is maybe the problem in my lenses. It's the same thing with all apertures,( 2, 4, 5.6, 8, 11, 16). In comparison with canon/nikon/sigma lenses is there always 1 stop darker and have DOF  the same as 1 stop lower aperture on other lenses. 

 

The best way to use a digital Leica with automatic exposure is to meter off an area which is closest to mid grey and then re-compose. If you are using automatic exposure you can hold the exposure by keeping your finger pressed lightly on the shutter button. Either that or use the exposure compensation system which is a bit clunky on digital Ms, but you will get used to it. The other way of dealing with this is to trust the meter and to adjust to taste afterwards in Lightroom or Photoshop. You could also use a hand held meter and set exposure parameters manually. There are a lot of ways to deal with this once you understand the basics of metering and exposure. I would not worry in the slightest about differences with other cameras and metering systems, once you are getting the results you want. Too much analysis spoils photography. Taking photos improves it.

 

 

William

[loverofthelight]

I think you didn't understand me. It's not about how to deal whit different exposure, I know all that stuff. It's just about the difference, at same settings, same object distance. Now I know that the thing is probably in lenses but it's still strange to me, why at same apertures, object distance there is more DOF with summicron than with canon/nikon/sigma lenses. Consequently there is also darker image. It's just that the summmicrons at f2 are the same as other lenses at f2.5-2.8. Does anybody else have that experience? 

[paulsydaus]

In a word, no.

While there may be very slight differences from lens to lens it won’t be a whole stop like you are suggesting. The differences are more to do with the sensor sensitivity.

 

It sounds to me like you are setting your Nikon and Leica to the exact same exposure settings and seeing a difference in brightness and getting confused which doesn’t surprise me at all. I agree, I wish there was more consistency especially between cameras and external light meters. Try not to worry about it though. This has nothing to do with the lens.

 

This might help you understand why your reasoning is wrong: brightness of the lens is not just to do with aperture but also efficiency of lens elements. Put an ND filter on your lens and you get the same dof but less light. So forget about DOF.

 

Leica lenses have extremely high efficiency due to quality of the coatings. Also, as I read somewhere part of a Leica lens esthetic is to maintain some detail in OOF areas which may give you the impression of less dof.

 

Try this, get a middle grey card and use that to set both camera meters. You may find that this results in different exposure settings on each camera but I bet both cameras will give you a correct exposure with grey card peak in the middle of the histogram.

 

Exposure settings will be different for each camera according to how the camera manufacturer decides to specify the sensor sensitivity. Just the way it is unfortunately, hence exposure settings are not transferable between cameras.

 

I can assure you that the Leica meter is both extremely accurate and consistent when used properly. Just remember that it’s centre weighted but the area will change depending on the focal length used.

 

I think you didn't understand me. It's not about how to deal whit different exposure, I know all that stuff. It's just about the difference, at same settings, same object distance. Now I know that the thing is probably in lenses but it's still strange to me, why at same apertures, object distance there is more DOF with summicron than with canon/nikon/sigma lenses. Consequently there is also darker image. It's just that the summmicrons at f2 are the same as other lenses at f2.5-2.8. Does anybody else have that experience?

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Edited March 21, 2018 by paulsydaus

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[willeica]

I think you didn't understand me. It's not about how to deal whit different exposure, I know all that stuff. It's just about the difference, at same settings, same object distance. Now I know that the thing is probably in lenses but it's still strange to me, why at same apertures, object distance there is more DOF with summicron than with canon/nikon/sigma lenses. Consequently there is also darker image. It's just that the summmicrons at f2 are the same as other lenses at f2.5-2.8. Does anybody else have that experience? 

 

From my post above 'Too much analysis spoils photography. Taking photos improves it.' This is not worth worrying about. Yes, I have noted this before, but I have not given the matter any thought whatsoever. Obsessing about such matters is not good for your photography.

 

William

Edited March 21, 2018 by willeica