Missing Actuator Arm for MOOLY (to use with IIIa)

[wlaidlaw]

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I have been offered a IIIa with a MOOLY at a quite reasonable price by a dealer. I would quite like to get it, as this was the type of Leica my father used constantly from 1939 until it was stolen in Spain in 1967 and is one of the gaps in my collection. The problem is that the actuator arm for the MOOLY to the camera shutter is missing.  The dealer is a well known European historic Leica dealer, who claims all is working well but I don't see how it can be with no arm. It is only I believe, the later MOOLY-C with the longer body cameras from IIIc onwards, that uses an internal link to the shutter release. I will have to read up my Laney later today. 

 

Has anyone any idea where I might acquire one of these arms. If I can't find an arm, I will not buy the IIIa and MOOLY. Below is a photo of the actual camera in question. There is some rust on the winder butterfly and the front actuator arm on the MOOLY but nothing that Alan Starkie could not sort for me. You can see otherwise the IIIa seems in nice cosmetic condition. 

 

Wilson

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[romanus53]

The arm gets lost often and is rarely offered separately, saw one years ago on eBay for appr. 200 Euros so you are right to buy only complete.

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[wlaidlaw]

I have sent emails to Alan Starkie, Don Goldberg and Sherry Krauter, asking if they might have or know how to obtain an actuator arm. Faint chance I suspect. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by wlaidlaw

[andybarton]

RedDot have a IIIa and MOOLY together for just over £1000, including the necessary arm.

[willeica]

The Red Dot item seems to be a IIIb. The arm is essential and I think you can take it that Ivor will have checked out that all is functioning well. It took me a while to find which of the cameras in my collection worked well with the MOOLY. The other issue besides matching is the weight of the item. It takes an ordinary LTM well model beyond the normal lithe little camera that we all love. I have one, but I rarely use it because of the size and weight. It is an interesting and amusing collector's item, however.

 

William

[andybarton]

It says it's a IIIa, but I'm no expert 

 

If Wilson wants his particular example of the camera body, he could  (should) buy the RedDot one, swap the winder, and sell the incomplete winder on his RedDot body straight away.

[wlaidlaw]

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I particularly want a IIIa with a MOOLY, as that is what my father used for close to thirty years. He was presented with the camera by the local refugee Polish community, for his work finding accommodation, papers and jobs for them after they had fled Poland in 1939. He was so upset by its theft in 1967 that together with health problems, he never took photographs again. He did also have a IIf, which I still have but due to eyesight problems, found the co-joined rangefinder and viewfinder very difficult to use. He used his very short sighted left eye on the focusable rangefinder and his better right eye on the viewfinder. For that reason I don't want a IIIb. I have not bought the IIIa with MOOLY from Boris yet and have not heard back from him if he had just taken the arm off for the photographs. 

 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

Red Dot are seeing if they will do a mix and match, as they have a nice IIIa for sale as well. As William points out, the camera currently fitted with the MOOLY is a IIIb. I also don't want or need to pay for yet another Elmar, having just sold off my excess Elmars but still have a nice nickel one. I have more than enough other LTM lenses.  

 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

Sadly the nice condition IIIa that Red Dot have, is not firing consistently with the MOOLY. The other IIIa they have, which is working, has worn/brassed chrome, particularly over the slow speed knob, which is a pet hate of mine. 

 

Peter Loy says he thinks that someone made replica arms for MOOLY winders, as they so often got lost but cannot remember who it was. 

 

Wilson

[andybarton]

Red Dot are seeing if they will do a mix and match, as they have a nice IIIa for sale as well. As William points out, the camera currently fitted with the MOOLY is a IIIb. I also don't want or need to pay for yet another Elmar, having just sold off my excess Elmars but still have a nice nickel one. I have more than enough other LTM lenses.  

 

Wilson

Under my plan you'd just sell off the body and lens you don't want.

 

Why not buy RedDot's camera and MOOLY (on the assumption that Ivor can't just sell you the MOOLY), and also the very best IIIa body that you can find, then put together the kit you don't want and sell that?

 

It would be a lot easier than searching the globe for a missing arm that may never be found.

[jc_braconi]

I have seen some  on ebay time to time, just be patient as collectors are 

[willeica]

It says it's a IIIa, but I'm no expert 

 

If Wilson wants his particular example of the camera body, he could  (should) buy the RedDot one, swap the winder, and sell the incomplete winder on his RedDot body straight away.

 

The one shown on the website has the joined together rangefinder and viewfinder which commenced with the IIIb. It was just an observation. Some people prefer the further apart rangefinder and viewfinder of the IIIa. I have 2 IIIas and a IIIb . They are all equally good for me as cameras.

 

The other issue here is making sure that the MOOLY works with the chosen IIIa. Note that any IIIa with a Serial Number below 159000 may not work with a MOOLY unless it has been fitted with a revised take up spindle with an engagement slot.  There is also an issue about the size of the base plate pin for models below SN 111450. For absolute certainty, the camera and MOOLY should be tested together before purchase. In particular you need to check that a full wind ensures the lining up the shutter speed correctly. I bought my MOOLY separately, but I have so many LTM models from the 1930s that I knew that at least one of them would work. The one that works best is this combination with a black paint and III with chrome furniture, which has a weight that takes into DSLR territory.

 

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I hope that you get what you want, Wilson. I still have one of my father's cameras (a Baldina) with its bill of sale from 1940 and the photos he took with it. I treasure them greatly.

 

William

Edited March 20, 2018 by willeica

[jc_braconi]

I do not know if always valid but

I have this link in my files... but stay seated before opening it, 
https://www.cameraquest.com/collectibles.htm

[wlaidlaw]

I do not know if always valid but

I have this link in my files... but stay seated before opening it, 

https://www.cameraquest.com/collectibles.htm

 

JC I feel there is a measure of wishful thinking on that price. I can buy a whole MOOLY and arm for about that price. I know who made those arms. He made a batch of them at customers' request, only to find that they baulked at the £100 each cost. He therefore sold them off cheap in bulk to try and recover some of his costs. He would have a fit if he saw that $800 cost for one arm, which is probably as much as he got for a whole lot of them. I won't alert him - too unkind. 

 

I may well just buy the nice IIIa with Summar I have been offered (a two owner camera) and get a MOOLY at some later point. 

 

Wilson

 

PS Just agreed to pay the negotiated price for the IIIa. Just hope it has not sold elsewhere in the intervening day. Will post a picture when (and if) it arrives. The serial number is up in the 235xxx range so should work properly with a MOOLY. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by wlaidlaw

[jc_braconi]

I bought my IIIa with a 3.5 Elmar 50 in 1970 or so and it was a good companion of my first M3
The MOOLY came many years after
always at home ...

 

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[wlaidlaw]

Peter Coeln has offered me a quite nice MOOLY with arm for just over £850, which is a reasonable price. Now I am torn. Do I buy the IIIb with an even nicer MOOLY from Igor and then sell on the IIIb with a reasonable if not wonderful chrome Elmar f3.5 at a total cost of £1060. The problem is knowing me, I would want to keep the IIIb as well and I really have more than enough LTM Leicas (9) let alone 6 M and 2 L mount cameras plus various Leica compacts and copies. I feel a good IIIb with Elmar, should be worth at least £200 but by the time you have deducted commission and Paypal fees, it would only realise just over £160. 

 

Decisions, decisions. 

 

Wilson

 

PS. Just been offered a somewhat grubby looking but apparently working MOOLY with arm from the USA for just £750. Don't know how well the chrome would clean up. It is very dull and has a nasty scuff wear mark on the front. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by wlaidlaw

[M9reno]

Wilson, go in person to Red Dot and check whether their MOOLY will work with the IIIa that you wanted in the first place.

 

The English instructions for the MOOLY reprinted in Lager's paperback instructions collection makes it very clear that the arm requires adjustment (light bending) to work with some cameras.

 

I coincidentally acquired a 2-speed MOOLY + IIIa last week (through a private sale) and had to adjust the arm as indicated in Lager's reprinted instructions. Before I did so, the MOOLY would not fire and advance successfully on the IIIa.

 

I have another MOOLY (a late version) and found that the arm for that MOOLY worked fine with the 2-speed version + IIIa. This is how I discovered that the arm that came with the 2-speed needed the adjustment indicated on the instructions.

[willeica]

Wilson, go in person to Red Dot and check whether their MOOLY will work with the IIIa that you wanted in the first place.

 

The English instructions for the MOOLY reprinted in Lager's paperback instructions collection makes it very clear that the arm requires adjustment (light bending) to work with some cameras.

 

I coincidentally acquired a 2-speed MOOLY + IIIa last week (through a private sale) and had to adjust the arm as indicated in Lager's reprinted instructions. Before I did so, the MOOLY would not fire and advance successfully on the IIIa.

 

I have another MOOLY (a late version) and found that the arm for that MOOLY worked fine with the 2-speed version + IIIa. This is how I discovered that the arm that came with the 2-speed needed the adjustment indicated on the instructions.

 

I cannot recall which of my cameras worked with my MOOLY and which did not work. I know that not all that should work with it ( according to SN) did actually work. I think that you are giving very good advice here. I have a lot of eligible cameras and I knew that at least one of them would work. I would suggest that anyone seeking to match a MOOLY with a specific camera should ideally bring the camera to the dealer that is selling the MOOLY. If you are buying online you need to ask the online dealer whether you can return the MOOLY if it does not work. Finally, the arm comes in two parts ( front and back) which can part company. I have Blu Tack on mine to hold the front and back together. It works very well on matching cameras. My MOOLY is an early two speed model which is supposed to have the higher speed disengaged, but you can get the higher speed by pushing the little button on the front right bottom - see photo above.

 

 

 

William

Edited March 22, 2018 by willeica

[wlaidlaw]

It could be difficult with Red Dot as the IIIb and MOOLY they have for sale is a commission sale. The owner is not keen for people to try the MOOLY on other cameras (oops the MOOLY seems to have died, scenario). That is why I would be inclined to go with the Leicashop one. Firstly you know with Peter Coeln there is a no quibble warranty/refund, if it did not work with the IIIa, which will not be in my hot sticky hands for a few days yet. Secondly it removes the temptation to keep the IIIb    I don't have a Leica IIIb but I do have a lovely Reid and Sigrist III-2 (maybe the last one ever made - a factory conversion from an unsold Reid I - internal serial P3499), which is the same thing as a Leica IIIb but even better built. 

 

Wilson

Edited March 22, 2018 by wlaidlaw

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[wlaidlaw]

I cannot recall which of my cameras worked with my MOOLY and which did not work. I know that not all that should work with it ( according to SN) did actually work. I think that you are giving very good advice here. I have a lot of eligible cameras and I knew that at least one of them would work. I would suggest that anyone seeking to match a MOOLY with a specific camera should ideally bring the camera to the dealer that is selling the MOOLY. If you are buying online you need to ask the online dealer whether you can return the MOOLY if it does not work. Finally, the arm comes in two parts ( front and back) which can part company. I have Blu Tack on mine to hold the front and back together. It works very well on matching cameras. My MOOLY is an early two speed model which is supposed to have the higher speed disengaged, but you can get the higher speed by pushing the little button on the front right bottom - see photo above.

 

 

 

William

 

William, 

 

I thought you could adjust the length of the arm by undoing the 4 screws at the back and sliding the lower section of the arm which goes into the MOOLY over the upper section of the arm which goes to the shutter button. I have a very vague memory of my father fiddling about with his MOOLY in pieces but maybe he was just cleaning and lubricating the sliding arm and motor. My father was a big believer in preventative maintenance, which usually consisted of squirting liberal amounts of "Three in One" oil or WD40 over everything that moved. We regularly got guests with black marks on their hands and clothes from touching various items round the house. 

 

Wilson