Tips for new film shooter

[Wojtek]

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Hey,

 

Yesterday I finally tried film photography (with M6 + Voigtlander 35/1.4 + Tri-X 400)! And... I'm totally lost 

I keep forgetting I'm shooting b&w, I have no idea whether I expose correctly (is it better to underexpose or overexpose with Tri-X?). Total chaos. I'm in love already

 

I'd appreciate absolutely any tips you have for a new film shooter On M6, on Tri-X, on focusing, on everything I don't even know that I don't know something, and maybe most importantly - on exposure.

I'm looking for useful one-liners from you as well as reading recommendations (I'll surely read Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure, but maybe you have more/better suggestions?), useful youtube videos to watch, etc. I'm hungry for knowledge and although I'll keep on doing my own research for education, I'm sure you guys have some useful tips and sources already. Thank you in advance!

Edited March 15, 2018 by Wojtek

[PaulJohn]

Hi Wojtek

 

Welcome to film photography. It's not a steep learning curve but you will make mistakes and learning from them is part of the fun.

 

If you are sending films off for dev and scan I recommend you ask the them not to auto correct exposure mistakes in the scans.

 

Tri-X has plenty of room for error but mainly on over exposure. Unlike digital it is unlikely you will clip the highlights. Under exposure should be avoided. With Tri-X I deliberately over expose by 1 stop and over develop by 1 stop following this advice:

 

http://www.johnnypatience.com/the-zone-system-is-dead/

 

It works for me.

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[spydrxx]

Also a thought based on my years of shooting...with B&W film, meter the midtones rather than the highlights or shadows.

[Ko.Fe.]

Use box speed. Use mobile free phone light meter app. Try to guess exposure first and memorize results light meter will gives you.

Learn and understand S16.

B/W is easy. It is devided to main subject and else.

Try to get into darkroom and print. This is where BW film photography starts

Care more for the moment you are taking, not about focus and exposure. Film is very forgiving and creative media.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Ko.Fe.

[ianman]

I'm looking for useful one-liners!

 

Two one liners:

film -> expose for shadows

digital -> expose for hightlights

[Rus]

My suggestion is not to try out a crazy amount of different stocks and techniques in too short a period of time. 

 

Maintain as much consistency as possible in every aspect of it (film stock, camera, lens, EI, dev method or dev store, etc.), and only change one thing at a time if you are finding the results unsatisfactory. 

 

That said, oh I know only too well there are many itches to scratch when one's fresh into film photography ;P

Edited March 15, 2018 by Rus

[Michael Geschlecht]

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Hello Wojtek,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Exposure determination is not that difficult & the meter that is already built into your M6 should make determining exposure reasonably easy & reasonably simple.

 

If you go to the WIKI at the top of this page & then go to the film camera section & then find your M6:

 

Within the description of the M6 you will see an Icon to "click" to go to an M6 instruction book. Which you can easily download.

 

To begin it is probably easier to simply use the meter in the camera as an "averaging meter" keeping in mind that the angle of coverage of the meter of an M6 is a circle in the center of the image, approximately the size of the middle 2/3 of the SHORT side of the frame, that shows what the lens THAT YOU ARE USING at that time, is going to cover in the photo.

 

To begin with: Find something within the photo scene that you want to capture that is in the middle between light & dark in what will be the photo. Set the camera to what the meter recommends (It is good to read the instruction book about this.). Then take the photo.

 

After you are comfortable with the photos that you are getting you can come back here & ask about the idea of:

 

"Expose for the shadows" for negative films, whether color negative films (Except sometimes) or black & white negative films:

 

And: "Expose for the highlites & let the shadows fall where they may" when using transparency films (slides) or with digital sensors:

 

A good way to learn the camera is to take out the film & use the camera as if you were taking all kinds of photos. Try different types of metering situations & try all kinds of combinations of settings. This will help you become more familiar with the camera's & the lens's operations.

 

As you do this come back here & ask questions. Especially the "silly" 1's. They are often the most important 1's to ask. Remember that everyone here has asked all of the questions that you can think of. Including the "silly" 1's.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited March 16, 2018 by Michael Geschlecht

[Wojtek]

Thanks a lot! I didn't expect that, but this advice is pretty comforting We'll see the prints though!

 

 

If you are sending films off for dev and scan I recommend you ask the them not to auto correct exposure mistakes in the scans.

 

Tri-X has plenty of room for error but mainly on over exposure. Unlike digital it is unlikely you will clip the highlights. Under exposure should be avoided. With Tri-X I deliberately over expose by 1 stop and over develop by 1 stop following this advice:

 

http://www.johnnypatience.com/the-zone-system-is-dead/

 

It works for me.

 

Thank's a lot Paul! So far, it's the absolutely best article (absolutely best 2 articles actually) I've read on exposing film.

[250swb]

Learn to use the meter in your camera and take readings from the correct areas within the frame, then maintain a discipline in doing this.

 

Consistency is the important thing for beginners. But consistency in what? So you've fallen in love with shooting film, but why, what have you been inspired by that made you buy a film camera? Maybe you've been looking at the B&W work of Ralph Gibson, Cartier Bresson, Moriyama, or whoever, and you thought 'I'd like to do that', if so that is what you should do. It's all well and good people giving you advice about exposing Tri-X, or suggesting 'must have' clutter, but it's all pointless and gets you nowhere if the final image isn't the one you have in your minds eye. 

 

If you'd suggested a road you want to go down you would have got some pinpoint advice, and some clutter, but mostly pinpoint advice.

[ShivaYash]

Welcome to film photography. I’d suggest getting close to the subjects you shoot. Also try and keep a record of exposure, that way you will have an idea of what went right and wrong.

 

Also try and shoot regularly, and don’t be scared about ‘wasting film’.

 

Post your results.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wojtek]

I have 4 new questions already!  

 

Also try and keep a record of exposure, that way you will have an idea of what went right and wrong.

 

 

1) How do you guys go about it? Writing it down in a notebook? (I ask because maybe my idea of doing it is superstupid and there are better ways)

Like: "15th march - Cat on X street: 1/125s, f/4, metered for cat"?

 

2) I've already read (in the article above and your suggestions) than it's better to overexpose than underexpose. That it's even possible that it's better to overexpose than expose "correctly"! Does testing different exposure methods on one film make any sense? Or maybe contact sheets will look like a chess board then and I should stick to one method on one film? 

 

3) I'm also a little worried - will accidentally moving the rewind lever a little bit move the film or it only works when I "open" this "stick" from it? (sorry, lack of better words in my english )  

 

4) And lastly - It seems like a lab has incredible influence on the final image. It can change exposure to it's taste and not to mine, it can keep contrast neutral when I'd prefer high, it can pull out the shadows where I wanted the picture to be pure black, right? How do you go about it?

[fatihayoglu]

Hi Wojtek

 

Welcome to film photography. It's not a steep learning curve but you will make mistakes and learning from them is part of the fun.

 

If you are sending films off for dev and scan I recommend you ask the them not to auto correct exposure mistakes in the scans.

 

Tri-X has plenty of room for error but mainly on over exposure. Unlike digital it is unlikely you will clip the highlights. Under exposure should be avoided. With Tri-X I deliberately over expose by 1 stop and over develop by 1 stop following this advice:

 

http://www.johnnypatience.com/the-zone-system-is-dead/

 

It works for me.

 

So, are you saying, let's imagine for the constant f number and shutter speed, you increase your ISO 1 stop (let's say from 400 to 800) and tell your developer you shot at ISO800? (I use film MP). I am always getting confused with over/under exposure and over/under development of the film. No problem with the digital

[PaulJohn]

So, are you saying, let's imagine for the constant f number and shutter speed, you increase your ISO 1 stop (let's say from 400 to 800) and tell your developer you shot at ISO800? (I use film MP). I am always getting confused with over/under exposure and over/under development of the film. No problem with the digital

 

 

What you describe is called 'pushing' the film, Shooting at 800 when the box speed is 400 is under developing the film. If you tell the developer you shot at 800 they will then compensate by developing for longer. The resulting images will be more contrasty and more grainy. This is not what the article is suggesting. To follow the article's advice you would shoot at 200 with a 400 film then tell the developer you shot at 800 (just a little white lie). i.e. you over expose by 1 stop and over develop by 1 stop. The confusion will clear up with practice. 

[PaulJohn]

I have 4 new questions already!

 

 

 

1) How do you guys go about it? Writing it down in a notebook? (I ask because maybe my idea of doing it is superstupid and there are better ways)

Like: "15th march - Cat on X street: 1/125s, f/4, metered for cat"?

 

2) I've already read (in the article above and your suggestions) than it's better to overexpose than underexpose. That it's even possible that it's better to overexpose than expose "correctly"! Does testing different exposure methods on one film make any sense? Or maybe contact sheets will look like a chess board then and I should stick to one method on one film? 

 

3) I'm also a little worried - will accidentally moving the rewind lever a little bit move the film or it only works when I "open" this "stick" from it? (sorry, lack of better words in my english )  

 

4) And lastly - It seems like a lab has incredible influence on the final image. It can change exposure to it's taste and not to mine, it can keep contrast neutral when I'd prefer high, it can pull out the shadows where I wanted the picture to be pure black, right? How do you go about it?

 

1. I never bothered. I usually point the camera at the pavement or the grass to get the exposure. It's the sky and bright lights that need to be avoided. On a sunny day I find there are usually 3 stops between well lit areas and shadow areas so I might shoot at f2.8 and f8 accordingly. Perhaps people who keep notes learn faster?

2. Some films are better with over exposure than others. Tri-X /HP5+/FP4+ all good with this technique. Delta and TMax less so. Learning by experimentation is the best way. Then you will be able to quantify the impact of your decisions.

3. Don't worry - moving the lever only takes up the slack inside the spool.

4. I prefer home developing and scanning for full control. It's cheap and fun. Lots of videos on youtube to get you started. This is the one that taught me: 

[earleygallery]

Don't overthink it. Just shoot some film using you built in light meter and film box ISO.

 

I personally think that an incident light meter is something every photographer should own. You might like to consider one (with incident readings you take the reading from th light source rather than the light reflected off your subject - doing street photography I just point the meter skywards).

 

Shoot, process, review and repeat. Do this a few times and then you can start to read up on pull/push processing, other film types etc. and later on doing your own film processing.

[Pyrogallol]

for what it’s worth -

stick to one popular film and developer, I prefer Ilford FP4 and Rodinal, developed at the manufacturer’s times, until you move on to something else.

Use an exposure meter, either handheld or built in to the camera. With a handheld meter taking an incident reading is reliable when there is sunshine in the scene, but I find it can give the wrong result on an overcast dull day. Bracketing the exposures, one stop over the meter reading and one stop under as well as the meter reading will show you the effects of the “right or wrong” exposure. Don’t start “pushing” the film or development until you get used to the normal results. You could try bracketing three stops over and under to get a real view of what over and under exposed negatives look like.

And print them yourself if at all possible to get a feel of how the negatives print under the enlarger, with fresh paper and developer.

[Wojtek]

I'm getting wiser every day I still would love to know answers for those two

 

2) I've already read (in the article above and your suggestions) than it's better to overexpose than underexpose. That it's even possible that it's better to overexpose than expose "correctly"! Does testing different exposure methods on one film make any sense? Or maybe contact sheets will look like a chess board then and I should stick to one method on one film? (what I mean is if I expose some shots correctly, and later some other shots will be "strategically overexposed", contact sheet probably will look bad? Because it can be "made" only at one iso)

 

4) And lastly - It seems like a lab has incredible influence on the final image. It can change exposure to it's taste and not to mine, it can keep contrast neutral when I'd prefer high, it can pull out the shadows where I wanted the picture to be pure black, right? How do you go about it?

 

But yeah, like Pyrogallol suggested above, I'll probably start with "correct" exposure. And maybe few rolls later I'll see what is this overexposing underdeveloping all about

[earleygallery]

2. There are almost infinite variables with B&W film/developer combinations. People generally find one or two combinations they prefer and stick to them. Again, I say don't overthink all this. Just start off with whatever film, expose it at the suggested ISO and - for difficult lighting - bracket your exposures. B&W film has quite wide latitude so a stop under or over really won't matter at all. You can also shoot C41 B&W film which uses the colour film process.

 

4. Yes. If you are using a lab to process and print then you have no control over choice of developer, processing times, printing technique etc., but you should end up with 'standard' images if that's what you could call it. Personally I process my own B&W and then scan it, and process/print via photoshop. I don't think it's worth wet printing unless you do it yourself, or you have a wet print made from a post processed digital file.

[spydrxx]

You're overthinking the issues too early in the game. Just start with the basics and analyze the results. You'll gain a much better understanding of the underlying principles. All the good advice above can only be most helpful when you have a better knowledge of your specific variables. For instance, at this juncture, you don't even know what variability you have in your shutter speeds...and I can reasonably assure you that they aren't exactly what is indicated on the knob which controls them. Although I test mine when I get a new camera, I'm only concerned that each speed is within a 1/2 f/stop tolerance. If one speed is out of whack I don't need to fix it, at most, merely compensate for it. Trying, at your stage, to accommodate too many variables is a formula for intense confusion - so go out and shoot, keep notes of everything, and come back and analyze the results against your expectations. Make adjustments for what didn't meet them and try again. Yes, you do lose control by not doing your own developing and printing, but you can begin to address that at a later date. You need to have something tangible, with details about it, to really begin to ask the proper questions. Nobody gets it righ first time, no matter how much advance knowledge they have. Experience and analysis will help you improve...lots of emphasis on gaining experience, one step at a time.

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[M.RB]

Just to add to the keep it simple suggestions. Keep it simple!

Expose 400 speed film at EI400 amd expose it correctly for your subject as best you’re able, don’t worry about any other factors in that equation. I’d underline all that if i knew how to!

 

Definitely keep notes, much like you suggested, they help enormously in overcoming the slow feedback loop.

 

If you aren’t going to be in a darkroom, then I would definitely suggest looking at your negatives as opposed to scans to make sense of how you’re getting on. I’d strongly recommend some darkroom time if you’re able.

 

And you really must develop your own b&w film, no excuses!

 

Have fun! It is very very easy to expose film, develop it and make pictures! Like anything in life it only starts getting harder when you become more experienced and discerning. Enjoy these simple times!