colonel Posted March 15, 2018 Share #1 Posted March 15, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) A long time ago in a land far far away (I start a lot of posts like this these days …) I had this amazing camera called the X2. It was small, pocket size in fact, and produced better pictures then most DSLRs of the day, but fixed lens is fixed lens. Anyway I asked Leica for an ILC X2 and got the ....... X-Vario. I actually used this for a bit, fantastic lens, but the same size as other makes’ ILCs and I couldn’t change the lens. So I asked Leica again and got the T. Beautiful, new, exciting, but not the X2 ILC. So I asked again and got the SL. Woooooah there, that’s a tank. So I gave up asking and went through a list of NLM’s frankly less satisfying AF options and reached a state of subliminally being permanently pissed about this (NotLeicaManufacture). I mean it’s a simple enough ask !!!! Pissed until coffee ? Just as I was minding my own business and thinking it’s the M for ever, Leica throws a curve ball, inexplicably soon after the TL2, and it looks like I caught it. So this thing is extremely cool!! Yummy Lens diversion: I ranted before about the T lenses being overpriced, effectively killing the system, despite the very positive reviews (see Thom Hogan – the definitive T review) and the reasonably good value body (yes, I said that about something Leica), but this thing might tip it over the edge. Its expensive, but actually not that expensive, only 20% more then the X-H1 – what were you thinking Leica !! but the lenses are still ridiculous. I mean I pay through the nose for M lenses, but at least they are full frame metal German works of jewellery art . These lenses are made in Japan man. However, I have been using the 11-23mm. This lens is seriously f****** cool. Its sharp corner to corner at all apertures. It pops and micro constrasts and everything else like crazy. Ok wide open it distorts like hell and vignetting is not banished, and also flare can creep in Flare on the 11-23. during the interview and all ... but this is some seriously well designed piece of glass. Eat Drink Play The 11-23 is simply the best urban walk around lens I have ever used. Its at rest at 23mm, just where you want it, and extended only ever so slightly to 11mm. It’s the perfect range. Forget having to choose between 18-24-28-35, you now have it all. And yes I use auto-ISO capped at 6400. And 6400 on the CL is like 1250 on the M9 so that’s cool. Anyway since I am restricted in my other system to Superia 400 and Ektar 100, this is just a pleasure 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Hi colonel, Take a look here Finally, my interchangeable lens X2 has come .... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
colonel Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share #2 Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) Back to the camera. Beautifully made, lovely to use. Quick to get used to and setup. I love the small size but, as a hand held camera person, it made be a bit nervous and not so much to hold on to, so I employed a Art & Artisan material hand strap – very reassuring. I was going to get a half case but the Leica one is just too tall and makes the camera quite a bit bigger. Will probably get an A&A one eventually as they are the best. Very pleased the flash was left out and no articulating screen. Everything just so solid. What, is that a pop-up flash !!! Love the OLED display, the only 3 buttons on the back, the reliable Panasonic electronics .. That’s interesting and cool as well. If someone asked you, build your perfect camera, who wouldn’t say Panasonic electronics, Sony Sensor, Leica build and glass ????? I mean how perfect is that Ok, so needs improvement, as it sounds false if I don’t criticise: 1. Selector wheels a bit loose – I prefer stiff 2. I don’t use stabilisation in any camera, as it makes images less sharp, but its good to have in emergencies and ticks the box for many people at this price bracket 3. Lens doesn’t fit tightly to bayonet – a bit of movement. I just like stuff snug 4. 11-23 didn’t work until the camera had updated its firmware. No warning that this was going on except a weird signature on the display and no AF for 5 mins .. WTF 5. Mechanical shutter not the quietest 6. No USB charge – this is so useful to have to not have to lug around a charger. How about wireless charging in the future!!!. That would be cool, just put the camera down on any Qi compatible mat. 7. My perennial ask that no manufacturer has delivered yet. A 4G (or 5G) capability with SIM slot. So it can continuous upload files in the background for backup and so you can edit online the instant you get home…. The electronic shutter is so essential these days, especially for street photography, and that together with the next to silent focusing is a dream. Is this what they mean by Training ? ho ho ho As compact systems go, with the IQ, handling, build and “just want to pickup and carry aroundish” feeling, this could be Leica’s best new hit for sometime. Love the sense of space from wide angles I’m hooked … Nat must have been hooked to the wrong thing Edited March 15, 2018 by colonel 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted March 15, 2018 Share #3 Posted March 15, 2018 When I briefly had the CL (replaced now by TL2) I 'borrowed' the grip from my Q, which more or less fits. I did feel a grip was very desirable, wrist-strap notwithstanding. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert blu Posted March 15, 2018 Share #4 Posted March 15, 2018 Interesting nice review, thanks. And...dangerous! At least dangerous to me...I do not need another camera, I do not need another..., i do not need,... robert 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2018 Share #5 Posted March 15, 2018 When I briefly had the CL (replaced now by TL2) I 'borrowed' the grip from my Q, which more or less fits. I did feel a grip was very desirable, wrist-strap notwithstanding. Yes, it lives more or less permanently on my CL. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 15, 2018 Share #6 Posted March 15, 2018 Please don't tempt me... There is so much overlap between Q, CL+11-23 and M+28Elmarit that it is hard to justify 2nd if you already have one. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2018 Share #7 Posted March 15, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, the M nor the Q offer the versatility of a zoom lens, the M has no autofocus or video and the Q lacks a choice of focal lengths. So the Q for active street photography, the M for considered quality work and the CL as a travel companion. You need them all. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted March 16, 2018 Share #8 Posted March 16, 2018 2. I don’t use stabilisation in any camera, as it makes images less sharp, but its good to have in emergencies and ticks the box for many people at this price bracket Are you talking about IBIS or OIS or both? I have been using the OIS of SL 24-90 for 2 years now. I haven't seen any noticeable impact on image quality whatsoever, on the contrary actually. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share #9 Posted March 16, 2018 Are you talking about IBIS or OIS or both? I have been using the OIS of SL 24-90 for 2 years now. I haven't seen any noticeable impact on image quality whatsoever, on the contrary actually. Its useful in emergency but for maximum image quality always best to turn off. Its because the system is always compensating, even if you are actually steady, or getting up to speed, or getting in a feedback loop (the systems senses its own vibrations). Which is why one is instructed to turn off if the camera is on a tripod. That doesn't mean the pictures won't be sharp, it just means they wont be as sharp as they can be and, it also is worse at particular shutter speeds, e.g.: https://photographylife.com/proof-that-vibration-reduction-should-first-be-stabilized Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted March 16, 2018 Share #10 Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Its useful in emergency but for maximum image quality always best to turn off. Its because the system is always compensating, even if you are actually steady, or getting up to speed, or getting in a feedback loop (the systems senses its own vibrations). Which is why one is instructed to turn off if the camera is on a tripod. That doesn't mean the pictures won't be sharp, it just means they wont be as sharp as they can be and, it also is worse at particular shutter speeds, e.g.: https://photographylife.com/proof-that-vibration-reduction-should-first-be-stabilized For all clarity I meant usage when shooting handheld... The 3 tests in the article were all performed on a tripod. It is widely accepted that turning off image stabilization on a tripod is good practice. Edited March 16, 2018 by JorisV Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share #11 Posted March 16, 2018 For all clarity I meant usage when shooting handheld... The 3 tests in the article were all performed on a tripod. It is widely accepted that turning off image stabilization on a tripod is good practice. its generally applicable to both. start up time, frequency disruption and feedback loop when your hand is actually steady 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted March 16, 2018 Share #12 Posted March 16, 2018 its generally applicable to both. start up time, frequency disruption and feedback loop when your hand is actually steady No offense but not my experience. This is what David Farkas wrote when he reviewed the 24-90: Commensurate with the stellar autofocus system, the optical image stabilization in the lenses works astonishingly well and with the same complete silence as the AF. Degradation of optical quality is always a concern when employing OIS. But, my friends in the optical department indicated that with IS enabled, 95% of the optical quality of the lens could be maintained. Under most circumstances, the extra sharpness afforded by using IS more than makes up for any subtle loss of absolute quality. And after seeing the results for myself, I couldn’t agree more. This is also my experience. In low light it works exceptionally well and is often a livesaver. In other circumstances there is no perceivable negative impact. As above-mentioned Leica does recommend turning off OIS when the camera is mounted on a tripod. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share #13 Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) .... But, my friends in the optical department indicated that with IS enabled, 95% of the optical quality of the lens could be maintained. Qed Edited March 16, 2018 by colonel 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mctuomey Posted March 16, 2018 Share #14 Posted March 16, 2018 thanks, colonel - enjoyed your practical comments and, of course, the pics. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted March 16, 2018 Share #15 Posted March 16, 2018 .... But, my friends in the optical department indicated that with IS enabled, 95% of the optical quality of the lens could be maintained. Qed Again, more than compensated for by the sharpness that you gain from the IS... I never turn off the OIS of the 24-90mm because I know it improves "my" images. I appreciate that YMMV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prk60091 Posted March 16, 2018 Share #16 Posted March 16, 2018 Well, the M nor the Q offer the versatility of a zoom lens, the M has no autofocus or video and the Q lacks a choice of focal lengths. So the Q for active street photography, the M for considered quality work and the CL as a travel companion. You need them all. i am going to have to print this out and show my wife and see if she agrees 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 16, 2018 Share #17 Posted March 16, 2018 Well, the M nor the Q offer the versatility of a zoom lens, the M has no autofocus or video and the Q lacks a choice of focal lengths. So the Q for active street photography, the M for considered quality work and the CL as a travel companion. You need them all. Highlight mine.... thanks for the info. I was wondering why there is no auto focus mode in M240's menu! Seriously, my comment was in usage overlap. If I am going on travel then why should I not carry M if I already have CL. Now don't tell me both are travel companions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 17, 2018 Share #18 Posted March 17, 2018 Well, they are, The M has been a travel companion to me for decades, after all. However, for that use I now prefer the CL, as it is more versatile and lighter. Nor do I have to make difficult decisions about long lenses any more. No more supplementary SLRs either. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonatdonuts Posted March 17, 2018 Share #19 Posted March 17, 2018 Borrowing the CL for the weekend. Image quality in good light is excellent: sharpness and colour very similar to the M10 with modern M lenses. CL size is adorable; viewfinder nice; and the snappy autofocus is perfect for street. The only real gripe is the too-easy-to-adjust control dials on the top plate. I like to shoot manually, and without the dial engravings I get a little disorientated, especially in bright sunlight reflecting off the LCD screen. And when I press one of the dial buttons by accident I've completely messed up my settings and I find myself spending 30 seconds trying to figure out how to get them back. I do hope Leica still plan on releasing an X3. Maybe the size of the CL but with the dedicated and engraved top plate dials. Basically an X2 with the CL sensor, autofocus speed, and summicron prime lens. Make it collapsible (with the manual pull out) like the old screw mounts and it would be a perfect point and shoot, whether it would have an EVF or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share #20 Posted March 18, 2018 Well, the M nor the Q offer the versatility of a zoom lens, the M has no autofocus or video and the Q lacks a choice of focal lengths. So the Q for active street photography, the M for considered quality work and the CL as a travel companion. You need them all. If you are happy at 28mm all the time then the Q is brighter and has a bit more of everything, but now I think the 11-23 on the CL is superior for street Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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