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Struggling to find "My" 50mm.


Abram

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If only they made 50 1.5 VM as normal lens to handle. No, they decided to use original, outdated exterior with sharp edges on focus ring. And why here is no focus tab on Elmar-M 50...

 

50mm lens seems to be much difficult to find. I made through long list of try and let go as well. It took to much time and I just going to keep two no big names, which are good on film and OK on digital.

Strange, 50mm has longest list, but it is easier to find something within 35 and wider as RF lens.  

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So what is the aesthetic you’re getting with your 35 and 21, but not getting with the 50s?

 

I'm not sure if I can totally quantify it as the two lenses are so different. I try not to buy into hype or the "Leica mystique" despite enjoying their product catalog, these are ultimately tools. I think I just go a little stir-crazy over the cost of these things and not being 100% happy with the results. I never found myself so nit-picky with my other systems in the past. 

 

But to summarize as best I can: The Super Angulon 21mm has this sort of classic presence that is very apparent on black and white film, it is fairly low distortion as well which allows me to get in very close to subjects and not have them look cartoonish. It's very sharp in the center and gradually falls off towards the edges (without looking bad, it does this gracefully somehow) it's also brilliant stopped down. It is workable on digital but not ideal. The 35mm I think is where I just find the most logic with Leica systems and I have been very happy with most 35mm lenses I have tried for whatever reason. At the moment I'm fond of the Summilux FLE because if I do use it wide open it has a very nice central presence and creates a strong point of focus on the subject, stopped down at all and it becomes super sharp across the frame and it works equally well on film and digital. I also find it to be slightly more gentle than the 35 Summicron ASPH I previously used and enjoyed which is a trait I am liking.

 

As I mentioned in my original post I can find something (or multiple somethings) positive to say about each 50mm I have tried, and for all I know the answer may very well be with one of them. 

 

If only they made 50 1.5 VM as normal lens to handle. No, they decided to use original, outdated exterior with sharp edges on focus ring. And why here is no focus tab on Elmar-M 50...

 

50mm lens seems to be much difficult to find. I made through long list of try and let go as well. It took to much time and I just going to keep two no big names, which are good on film and OK on digital.

Strange, 50mm has longest list, but it is easier to find something within 35 and wider as RF lens.  

Exactly! This is precisely what I'm saying, I just find it so odd that for such a staple focal length that it's so difficult to find one that's a great all-around user and doesn't cost in excess of $5000

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It strikes me that, while you've tried a lot of 50s, many of them including all the Leicas have some similarities of character, which I might loosely call a crisp, contrasty drawing of fairly "modern" character.  In this regard, the APO Summicron could prove to be the apotheosis of things you've already tried, and so also unsatisfying.  I think if what you were missing was apertures wider than f/1.4, you would be expressing that rather than speaking of intangibles.

 

In your shoes, I would take a look at the Summicron v.III (1969), the Summilux v.I and the Elmar f/3.5 in M-mount, which is enough of a sleeper to have been left out of Erwin Puts's "Compendium".  I have all three and shoot them on digital M cameras.  Nothing about the results--besides from the Summilux wide open--screams "period lens."  Since you like the modern Elmar, you might give the old 3.5 a try.  To me, the results from this lens are special in a way the orginal 2.8's are not (I haven't shot the modern one).

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Abram, it's hard to find what you want if you don't know what it is, to start with.

 

However, memory is a wonder.

 

Use the 21 or 35 for 6 months, after which you will either (a) forget this exercise as pointless, or (b ) you will pine for the 50 you really liked, amongst the many you have tested.

Edited by rramesh
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How about the Summicron vII Rigid or DR. Very well loved lens. There is a thread going on right now about it now. Mandler lens. Super sharp in the center, but drops off faster to the edges than the newer Summicrons. Smooth render like the Elmar M.

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Abram, it's hard to find what you want if you don't know what it is, to start with.

 

However, memory is a wonder.

 

Use the 21 or 35 for 6 months, after which you will either (a) forget this exercise as pointless, or (b ) you will pine for the 50 you really liked, amongst the many you have tested.

Haha so true! I appreciate you all humoring me and having some dialog. I think your point is right on though and likely what I will do. 

 

How about the Summicron vII Rigid or DR. Very well loved lens. There is a thread going on right now about it now. Mandler lens. Super sharp in the center, but drops off faster to the edges than the newer Summicrons. Smooth render like the Elmar M.

 

I did have a chance to at least try a DR Summicron before and I agree it is really nice! I think that would be what I would look for if I was to only use it on film. I have heard that some of them seem to work ok through the whole focus range on the M10 but many do not. It may be something I explore though we'll see. 

 

Ultimately this is not something I want to rush into. I want to take the time to really learn what characteristics I'm chasing after and maybe discover what I may have even had. I think TIME is a key factor that I seem to forget.

 

I do very much appreciate you all taking the time to share your opinions though! 

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All those 50mm lenses, wow are you overthinking and over gear-heading it. Just get a 50mm Summicron and get to making photographs. If you find you are not producing with it, then I hate to say it but it is your headspace, not the lens.

 

The character is best portrayed in the actual photograph, not a magic bullet in the lens it self.

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Hi Abram,

 

In M mount, I have a 50 Summitar f/2 (1948) and the 50 Summilux ASPH and the Noct 0.95 (I also have the 35 Summilux-TL and 50 Summilux-SL, and the 50 SL is the best of the bunch).

 

The Summitar has a classic look which I like very much, but if I had to choose one all rounder, it would be the 50 Summilux-M ASPH. It’s just such a great lens. I like my Noct, but I use it mostly on the SL.

 

Cheers

John

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Abram, I haven't seen your work, so I can only say what I would conclude in your shoes.

 

If, after trying all those lenses, I still was not happy with the output, I would conclude that it was my own talent or skill that was the problem, not the specific lens.

In fact it has been my view ever since I first picked up a Leica that I owned a camera and lenses that are far more capable than I am. 

 

So in your shoes I would pick one of those lenses, any one, and stick with it (I picked the Apo Summicron): I would aim to become a better photographer, and save money.

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It’s hard to read your mind, but I would guess your priorities are central sharpness, falloff, and color rendition. Some excursions into the wider end of the Summicron-V and Summilux ASPH May please you more. Give it a shot.

 

If I had to own just one 50, it would be the APO. Shooting 50 when you’re in a 21-35 rut takes a little practice.

 

Eric

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All those 50mm lenses, wow are you overthinking and over gear-heading it. Just get a 50mm Summicron and get to making photographs. If you find you are not producing with it, then I hate to say it but it is your headspace, not the lens.

 

The character is best portrayed in the actual photograph, not a magic bullet in the lens it self.

Have to agree.

FWIW i have the 50mm Summicron Rigid and the APO and i could easily make do with either, the Rigid is more than enough for my needs, I’m very lucky to have both.

 

The 50 Rigid matches the Super Angulon nicely. Same in bw and same slightly muted colours.

 

Anything in decent condition post 1960 is going to be a cracker and make no meaningful difference to an image imho.

 

Special light, not special lens is what you’re after?

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[...] I'm fond of the Summilux FLE because if I do use it wide open it has a very nice central presence and creates a strong point of focus on the subject, stopped down at all and it becomes super sharp across the frame and it works equally well on film and digital. I also find it to be slightly more gentle than the 35 Summicron ASPH I previously used and enjoyed which is a trait I am liking. [...]

 

I don't count my 50mm lenses anymore but the one that matches best my 35/1.4 FLE is the 50/1.4 asph. For a bit more "gentleness" i would try a 50/2 apo which has smoother bokeh around f/2 - f/2.8. It is sharp across the frame at all apertures though and it is more expensive obviously. Otherwise i don't see a better candidate than the 50/1.4 asph to complement your 35/1.4 FLE. 

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You've already tried a very long list of 50mm lenses; there may be some others out there that have a bit different rendering here and there, but my experience (2 version of Summicron 50, Lux 50 Asph, Elmar 3.5, Summarit 1.5, Summitar f2) is that unless you're wanting a 50 for ONE very specific type of look (such as the Nocti f1 or f0.95 for ultra shallow DOF, or a very vintage lens with lots of charming quirks), the fact that it's a 50 (vs. a 35, or a 75, or a 21 etc.) is the biggest driver...because it frames the photo as it were. I'm sure I'll have lots of Forum members disagreeing with me, telling me I don't know what I'm talking about because I '...haven't tried such and such lens and if you did you'd think differently'. You've said you don't want to just rely on shallow DOF to make bad pics seem better...that tells me that those things don't matter so much to you (which is good), and that if you seek a fast lens it's for light-gathering rather than playing the 'dreamy bokeh game' (which frankly I'm tired of; I think bokeh is one of the most overhyped factors in the past ten years). So what I'm saying is that 'compositionally', a 50 is a 50 is a 50. Certainly there are nuances to the rendering of all lenses, and some absolutely have a defining feature more than others there's no doubt. 

 

But none of them are enough to suddenly turn a picture into something it's not. So it's easy to fall into the trap of wringing one's hands in the search for something that will 'inspire' or 'redefine my photography'.  So while a photo with the APO Cron will have some sharpness and micro contrast and treatment of light that is different than the non-APO Cron (especially to the discerning eye and on close examination), it's not as though the non-APO photo is going to somehow 'sing' less...because it's always what is IN the photo that is most critical of all. For me, this is what's the most important, and the focal length is the defining factor that way....and of course, subject matter, timing and lighting, etc. But the 50 frame shapes the picture, as does the 35 and the 28. Again, I'm not saying there aren't differences between lenses, but at a point it becomes a bit of a mug's game.

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I'm taking a long trip next week which includes some dicey areas.  Have gone back & forth on which 50.  I've decided on the black (also have silver) Elmar-M over Summi v4 for weight, compactness & look.   Fits slung on M240 under a jacket collapsed very easily.  Rarely need 2.0 even less so 1.4.  My Lux rarely sees action, should sell it.

 

2nd lens a 90 - no wides this time, am traveling as light as possible - no EVF either (hate the thing - LV is fine for macro w/ OUFRO)

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