M11 for me Posted March 14, 2018 Share #21 Posted March 14, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Maybe this is for another thread: but i have read many wanting IBIS on an M. But isnt that technologically incompatible? Like having a car which works in manual and automatic at the same time? No, generally that would work. I can see no incompatibility. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 Hi M11 for me, Take a look here M10 and Sony A7R III. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Neko Posted March 14, 2018 Share #22 Posted March 14, 2018 No, generally that would work. I can see no incompatibility. Me neither. I mostly think about Leica M as a hand held camera. Therefore IBIS would be perfect for the next M itineration. Great advantage in low light conditions and with longer focal length lenses (90 and 135 APO). 36-42 mp and same size than M10 would be the cherry on the top. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhicks Posted March 14, 2018 Share #23 Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) This is a pointless thread. The Leica M is a rangefinder. Period. Please re-read the OP’s question. The person didn’t ask which you prefer or which is objectively better. Simply put: if you have/could have both, on what occasions would you use the M10 instead of the A7riii? Sounds like a reasonable question. Edited March 14, 2018 by mhicks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted March 15, 2018 Share #24 Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) Ramesh likely assumed that the OP put the answer in form of a question, like in Jeopardy. The thread automatically then morphed into a discussion about why doesn’t the M10 have more MPx (that topic hasn’t been discussed here before), why can’t it have IBIS, why can’t it make coffee, and the like. Ramesh then simply stated that this thread is pointless, it’s a rangefinder. Edited March 15, 2018 by Chaemono Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 15, 2018 Share #25 Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) The Sony A7RIII really shows you what is possible with modern design. Compare: Weight (inc batteries): 657gm (A7rIII), vs. 660g (M10) Width: 127mm (a7rIII) vs. 139mm (M10) Height: 96mm (a7rIII) vs. 80mm (M10) Depth: 74mm (a7rIII) vs. 39mm (M10) Bear in mind the height of the A7RIII includes the viewfinder bulge, and the depth includes the handgrip. The body itself is as thin as the M10 - no mean feat when you also have IBIS and the articulating LCD screen contributing to the thickness. Besides IBIS and that articulating screen, the A7RIII also includes a whole bunch of features which eat up space: larger battery, dual SD card slots, weather sealing, and various hardware ports and interfaces. It still manages to come in weighing slightly less than an M10. Now, imagine if Leica took a leaf from Sony's book. Imagine if Leica took an A7RIII and got rid of all the junk we don't need - no video, no n00b modes, no AF, no articulating screen, half of those stupid buttons, no hardware ports, but kept the IBIS. The M11 would be thinner and lighter than the M10 but still have IBIS. Alas, we can only dream. Even without the handgrip the M10 is noticeably thinner than the A7R3 (lens mount to rear screen). At least, mine is..... I don't really compare them much, personally. They're so different. If i want long or high resolution I shoot the Sony. If I want a small fast prime I take the Leica. Gordon Edited March 15, 2018 by FlashGordonPhotography 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted March 15, 2018 Share #26 Posted March 15, 2018 ... Now, imagine if Leica took a leaf from Sony's book... ... Alas, we can only dream. Our dreams could be coming true. I’m hearing that Leica intends to take a leaf from Sony. They are planning to hire a couple of thousand optical engineers and start to call their lenses G Master. And as a side note, Sony has about 128K employees. Of those roughly 91K work in the Electronics segment which encompasses Imaging Products & Solutions. This division accounted for roughly 11.5 percent of FY 2017 Electronics sales. Semis, by the way, accounted for 15.4 percent. Gee! I wonder how TowerJazz will ever catch up in FF 40+ MPx sensors with “only” 4,500 employees, especially in light of the fact that Sony stood still with the α7R III sensor. http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.de/2018/02/towerjazz-updates-on-its-cis-business.html?m=1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2018 Share #27 Posted March 15, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Me neither. I mostly think about Leica M as a hand held camera. Therefore IBIS would be perfect for the next M itineration. Great advantage in low light conditions and with longer focal length lenses (90 and 135 APO). 36-42 mp and same size than M10 would be the cherry on the top. The only problem being that it took Leica over a year extra development to get the present electronics squashed into the smaller body. Now if the users were prepared to accept a bit of bloat to incorporate IBIS... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted March 15, 2018 Share #28 Posted March 15, 2018 Nikon on sensor stabilization (IBIS): Nikon currently only uses optical stabilization. One of the problems of sensor stabilization, the sensor may no longer be exactly on the image plane of the camera and the image can lose precision. As we explained, we are not deploying new technology without being certain of its reliability and usefulness. Please wait, because we are developing this technology that will be used in the years to come. Read more: https://nikonrumors.com/2018/03/09/interview-with-nikon-at-the-cp-show-100-mp-full-frame-sensor-mirrorless-ibis-innovation.aspx/#ixzz59ojKwqua 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2018 Share #29 Posted March 15, 2018 Nikon on sensor stabilization (IBIS): Nikon currently only uses optical stabilization. One of the problems of sensor stabilization, the sensor may no longer be exactly on the image plane of the camera and the image can lose precision. As we explained, we are not deploying new technology without being certain of its reliability and usefulness. Please wait, because we are developing this technology that will be used in the years to come. Read more: https://nikonrumors.com/2018/03/09/interview-with-nikon-at-the-cp-show-100-mp-full-frame-sensor-mirrorless-ibis-innovation.aspx/#ixzz59ojKwqua Which, of course, is all the more of a problem on high-resolution sensors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted March 15, 2018 Share #30 Posted March 15, 2018 Looking at all the pics of M's in thick leather cases..i wonder Now if the users were prepared to accept a bit of bloat to incorporate IBIS... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted March 15, 2018 Share #31 Posted March 15, 2018 . . . then it is not an M any more . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2018 Share #32 Posted March 15, 2018 Well, that is not true, The M8 through M240 were certainly M cameras. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted March 15, 2018 Share #33 Posted March 15, 2018 The only problem being that it took Leica over a year extra development to get the present electronics squashed into the smaller body. Now if the users were prepared to accept a bit of bloat to incorporate IBIS... I´m ready to wait three or four years to get an M with IBIS, 36-42mp, broader DR, better with ISO capabilities....and the same size of the M10 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted March 15, 2018 Share #34 Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) I´m a technology evolution belieber! Edited March 15, 2018 by Neko Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted March 15, 2018 Share #35 Posted March 15, 2018 I’m willing to wait eight years if a new M is able to make coffee. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2018 Share #36 Posted March 15, 2018 I´m ready to wait three or four years to get an M with IBIS, 36-42mp, broader DR, better with ISO capabilities....and the same size of the M10 Fingers crossed. It may be that you are asking for a two-headed Unicorn. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 15, 2018 Share #37 Posted March 15, 2018 . . . then it is not an M any more . . . Why not? To me the only change is going digital (that brings digital stuff like ISO change, EVF, digital menu etc.). All the digital stuff is kept to minimum as well. It is still M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted March 15, 2018 Share #38 Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) add a grip and leather case on the M10 and voila it can still be a RF, with IBIS etc etc I´m ready to wait three or four years to get an M with IBIS, 36-42mp, broader DR, better with ISO capabilities....and the same size of the M10 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 15, 2018 by frame-it 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/282654-m10-and-sony-a7r-iii/?do=findComment&comment=3481256'>More sharing options...
HawkeyeHo Posted March 17, 2018 Share #39 Posted March 17, 2018 The A7RIII is amazing with Leica glass. I initially got the Sony to mate with Leica glass as a light travel kit. Than I fell for an M10 as my first rangefinder. I appreciate the shooting process with M10. It’s just difficult to shoot with at night so I use it with the visoflex. Where I find the Sony has a few advantages over the M10’s 1. High ISO performance. I shoot a lot at night. 2. Better EVF 3. Titling LCD for waistlevel or Low level shots. More practical than the visoflex 4. IBIS 5. Very high magnification for very precise focusing. 6. Voigtlander VM adaptor allows for closer focusing of M glass. 7. Complete silent shooting. I’m keeping both 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lik Posted March 17, 2018 Share #40 Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) I went through 13 steps of my Leica-Sony bigamy: Having M240 buying a A7RII as a second body - enthusiastic with the Sony. I already had two Zeiss Batis Lenses from my first A7R. Finding out that I hardly ever use the Batis Lenses. Instead I had both with Leica M lenses. Finding out that the A7RII showed a little bit more detail on an APO Cron 50. Figuring out which Leica M lenses work well with the A7RII. Better than with the predecessors but not all of them really well. Finding out that apart from my APO Cron 50 and APO Telyt 135 very few lenses show a noticeable difference in resolution. And the two APO’s showed this resolution difference only at a 1:1 or 2:1 magnification on the screen. Seeing that also with these lenses the Leica M pics gave a more three dimensional impression. Having the experience always feeling somehow restricted in choice of camera-lens combo. Because: Finding in postproduction always annoying that I first needed not to forget the profiling in LR. Which also means figuring out which one of all the „unknown lenses“ LR showed really was mounted on the Sony. Annoyed to find out that the additional work afterwards is far more than just a few mouse clicks. Seeing that the color rendering is different - so needed that in one series adjustment between Leica and Sony needed. Watching my own behavior - automatically using the Leica (M240 as well as after change to an M10) by far more often and leaving the A7RII behind. Learning that after a time no use I always forget some aspects of the fiddling handling (focus magnification, peaking, unintentionally turning the exposure +/- wheel etc.) Finding that for my most used lens by far (Noct 50) the Sony is useless. Since I always like to be with two bodies selling the A7RII, the two Batis and meanwhile feeling happy with two M’s instead. Just a very individual but real experience. Best regards lik Edited March 17, 2018 by lik 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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