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M10 and Sony A7R III


TG14

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Leica is obviously in serious trouble - they have thousands of M10s stockpiled.  Once this comparison makes the rounds, they won't sell another M10 unless they discount them down to significantly lower than what the A7R III sells for!  :rolleyes:

 

I had thought of the A7R III as a lower priced option as a back-up body for my M-P 240.  After some serious thought, I just don't want to go there. 

 

Why?  Among other reasons, equipment continuity.  Sony is another system; I don't want a cobbled together, bastardized kit.  Two different chargers, two different sets of batteries, Sony E mount to Leica M mount adapter and/or Sony lens for the A7R III.  No, thanks.

 

Then there's the issue of sensors.  The Sony Exmor R BSI sensor will produce a different fingerprint from the M10's sensor.  Again, no thanks.

 

I am holding out till I can acquire an M10 body.  My M-P 240 will then become my secondary body to the M10.

 

JMHO/YMMV.

Edited by Herr Barnack
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I use an A7 for long lenses, Macro, and (old SLR) ultrawides. My M10 with Viso can do (M) ultrawides and R long and Macro, but the combination is a bit clunky. For general use I much prefer the M10, however I may change to an A7 III (not the R) to replace the A7 to gain stabilization, silent operation, and better low light use. I see the "R" high pixel count as a negative for my use.

Having used Leica M models for 50 years they just feel right for general photography.

Edited by TomB_tx
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hmmm... i don't think leica user will compare M10 and A7Riii. they are for different market, user and purpose. people use M system love the rangefinder system. its just different with EVF. its not about which is better. its a preference. the built and the feel when using leica M is just different with sony camera. A7Riii is a great tool, it can do everything that M10 can't do. but they have different usage. 

 

i suggest you tried rangefinder system for at least a month before you get into decision. i used to disliked rangefinder system. but i loved it after a while. 

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It is nothing new, as usual :).

In 2016 it was Sony A7something and I was given as BD gift money to purchase most expensive camera I ever owned.

I could get this 2016 Sony A7something, but went with Leica instead. For obvious reasons described by blacksinner above.

Well, it is not just love, but more on I can or I can't use side.

This is why I din't even bother to check what exactly was this Sony A7someting. Then first Sony A7something  came I looked at it, have it in my hands and into my eye.

Not the build quality I like, no OVF I need and it is placed in the middle of the top, which something I (my nose) can't stand with SLRs. :)

Why pay for something good on specification list, but next to unusable? 

Edited by Ko.Fe.
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The A7R is the travel companion to my M10, the compare above was with the A7R III, a cheaper and very capable, 24 megapixel and IBIS stabilized, A7III recently announced at $1998, now on pre order for April availabilty, should be part of the evaluation mix.

 

BTW I made an evaluation and decided not to acquire the CL because the old A7R is a better companion to the M10.

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I use my A7RII and Rx1rII with my M10. For me there is no reason to jump to the III as the sensor is essentially the same and I have 0 complaints with the II - which was a pretty large leap in digital camera tech for my purposes. When I have to choose I choose the Sony because the image quality is noticeably better. I prefer to use the Leica, but only will do so when I know the image won't be printed past a certain size. I would love to sell my Sony kit and use only one system, but Leica has a ways to go in sensor tech before that can happen. 

 

That comparison is pretty funny and obviously ignores the main highlights of using the M10, but there are bits of truth to it that amount to why I can't get rid of my Sony system. 

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Leica is obviously in serious trouble - they have thousands of M10s stockpiled.  Once this comparison makes the rounds, they won't sell another M10 unless they discount them down to significantly lower than what the A7R III sells for!  :rolleyes:

 

I had thought of the A7R III as a lower priced option as a back-up body for my M-P 240.  After some serious thought, I just don't want to go there. 

 

Why?  Among other reasons, equipment continuity.  Sony is another system; I don't want a cobbled together, bastardized kit.  Two different chargers, two different sets of batteries, Sony E mount to Leica M mount adapter and/or Sony lens for the A7R III.  No, thanks.

 

Then there's the issue of sensors.  The Sony Exmor R BSI sensor will produce a different fingerprint from the M10's sensor.  Again, no thanks.

 

I am holding out till I can acquire an M10 body.  My M-P 240 will then become my secondary body to the M10.

 

JMHO/YMMV.

 

Can we stop that comparison making rounds! M10 is in serious trouble! What will happen to this forum! Sorry for too many questions!!

 

:D

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I have a7RIII with Zeiss 35/1.4 and use it indoors for moving kids only(fast face detection), m10 for everything else indoors and outdoors because of much better ergonomics and colours.

 

 

How is its performance with face detection? Been looking for a solution for that: kids running around indoors.

 

Was thinking thay m10 with zone focus might solve that.

 

There's also another thread on taking photos of moving kids where i have been trying to learn from.

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I have both, and a good set of lenses for each (more for the M10 since there are fewer great lenses available for the a7riii.)

 

In my experience, the M10 is more fun to shoot and carry, though the Sony is almost as small (assuming you carry the f/1.8 and f/2 primes rather than the massive f/1.4s and GM lenses). In the same small (bread loaf-sized) bag I can fit the M10 + 4 lenses, or the Sony + 3 lenses.

 

The Sony is much more capable for shooting situations other than standard photos (high speed burst shooting, 4K video, AF, eye-AF which works quite well, a zilllion different AF and shooting parameters and settings... the full manual is 650 pages!). As a result, it is also a major headache to learn to use, to configure, and to shoot, compared to the simplicity of the M10. Of course for some subject matter like sports or moving kids, my hit rate for the Sony is much, much, higher than that of the M10.

 

And then there’s the (unnecessarily controversial) sensor comparison. As much as I love Leica and all my M10 gear, the Sony sensor is quite a bit better in my opinion— 1-2 stops better signal:noise (very noticeable), and 42 MP for outstanding cropping flexibility.

 

The experience of shooting them is very different. The M10 is fun for me to shoot, and involves me more due to the rangefinder experience. The a7riii is my choice when I absolutely need to get the shot, or when shooting conditions are very challenging (dark, moving subjects, small time windows to capture the moment, etc).

 

Overall I’m very happy to have both, as I feel they are quite complementary. Or as I told my wife recently, the a7riii is the best accessory I ever bought for my Leica :). (Indeed, you can get the a7riii, 28/2, 55/1.8, and 85/1.8, the kit I would recommend, new for a grand total of less than $5k... less than the cost of most of the individual Leica lenses I own).

 

Finally, I should note that I find Leica glass in general to be better than the best Sony lenses (excluding the huge GM lenses that rival my DSLR lenses in size and weight). And there’s nothing quite like the 50 noctilux or the 50 APO in the current Sony lineup. Of course the Sony lenses can autofocus, generally very well.

 

I hope these thoughts are helpful.

Edited by onasj
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The Sony A7RIII really shows you what is possible with modern design. Compare: 

Weight (inc batteries): 657gm (A7rIII), vs. 660g (M10)

Width: 127mm (a7rIII) vs. 139mm (M10)

Height: 96mm (a7rIII) vs. 80mm (M10)

Depth: 74mm (a7rIII) vs. 39mm (M10)

 

Bear in mind the height of the A7RIII includes the viewfinder bulge, and the depth includes the handgrip. The body itself is as thin as the M10 - no mean feat when you also have IBIS and the articulating LCD screen contributing to the thickness. 

 

Besides IBIS and that articulating screen, the A7RIII also includes a whole bunch of features which eat up space: larger battery, dual SD card slots, weather sealing, and various hardware ports and interfaces. It still manages to come in weighing slightly less than an M10. 

 

Now, imagine if Leica took a leaf from Sony's book. Imagine if Leica took an A7RIII and got rid of all the junk we don't need - no video, no n00b modes, no AF, no articulating screen, half of those stupid buttons, no hardware ports, but kept the IBIS. The M11 would be thinner and lighter than the M10 but still have IBIS. 

 

Alas, we can only dream. 

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The M11 would be thinner and lighter than the M10 but still have IBIS.

 

Maybe this is for another thread: but i have read many wanting IBIS on an M. But isnt that technologically incompatible?

 

Like having a car which works in manual and automatic at the same time?

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Maybe this is for another thread: but i have read many wanting IBIS on an M. But isnt that technologically incompatible?

 

Like having a car which works in manual and automatic at the same time?

 

For me, having a sensor that allows me to say halve the shutter-open duration without any increase in noise compared to the M10 would be even more useful than IBIS.  Usually my hands are steady enough over typical shutter speeds that subject movement, rather than camera movement, is limiting in my experience.  Having an extra stop of sensor signal:noise ratio would be more versatile than multiple stops of IBIS in my opinion.  

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How is its performance with face detection? Been looking for a solution for that: kids running around indoors.

 

Was thinking thay m10 with zone focus might solve that.

 

There's also another thread on taking photos of moving kids where i have been trying to learn from.

 

Face detection and eye-focus work very quickly and reliably, and the tilting screen helps to shoot kids from their level. Indoors is usually not enough light, so m10 with zone focus does not help. Also background usually too overloaded indoors, so open aperture (1.4-2.0) helps to defocus unnecessary details.  It should be noted that if Leica 35 summicron SL exists, I would not buy Sony. Sony is a computer with a chaotic set of buttons, there is no pleasure to shoot with them, but the result is a good. In the absence of an alternative it is necessary to use Sony for me

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Has anyone bought the A7R III or looking/thinking about it to pair it with an M10?

 

If so, under what circumstances would you use the M10 over the A7R III?

 

Also, came across this: http://cameradecision.com/compare/Leica-M10-vs-Sony-Alpha-A7R-III

Thought there was some humour to it.

Humour indeed. It claims the M10 is “average” for street photography but “good” for sports. Excuse me while I pick myself up from the floor from hysterics.

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