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M11 Where To From Here? [merged thread]


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Looks like the M-P10 specifications list.  :wub:

 

But then the last point on my wish list is what makes it the M11: 

 

 

36 mp sensor - contingent upon low light performance not being compromised

 

Adding 50% more pixels to a finite 24x36mm sensor space would require new (or different from the M10) sensor technology if low light performance is not being compromised.

Edited by Herr Barnack
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That is not the intention of this post at all.

Developing a camera is a multi year project cycle. The most ideal time to inform the specification for the next camera is now, not in 4 years time 3 months out from release.

 

Just enjoy the camera you own. There are plenty of pro photographers still using an M9. To be honest this sort of thing reminds me of hi fi buffs back in the 70s who bought the albums that best showed off the specs of their equipment.

 

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I respectfully disagree and think you have misunderstood the intention of my post.

 

I agree.

Haven’t we spent enough this year. And if we really must debate and speculate on the next M11,can it be separated from this M10 thread. Pushing Leica into a further phase of development at this early stage of the life of the M10 is contrary to the benefits of good product life cycle management.

Profits from the M10 only start to accrue once all the development costs have been recovered, and the cost of producing further M10s will then drop dramatically. That’s when it begins to make real profits. I doubt that Leica has reached the former point.

I know that some forum members don’t consider the position of the manufacturer and only want more and more. Be careful, because at this stage the company has to keep the product selling, or else!

 

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as long as they keep up with using a sensors that's 2-3 generations behind the times I think it will be good by then. If I'm optimistic it's that they use something like the Sony 42/Nikon 45/Canon 50 mp sensors instead of the now 6 year old 36 mp sensor. (this of course with have better low light and latitude capabilities as well - which is the norm in those sensor)

Literally everything else could stay the same for me, no prob. The form factor is great. EVF hybrid would be cool but I don't need it. A faster flash sync would be cool - even 1/250 - but I think I'm the minority there. 

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I'm still too happy with my M10 to think about larger things but I can think of a few small things

 

- Wifi that is not iPhone dependent

- Integrated GPS

- Continious and timed shots on on/off switch

- Programmable front button

- Non-protruding LCD

 

The most important thing for me is that they keep the opto-mechanical rangefinder. It is the essence of the camera. That implies no EVF. 

 

Edit: Electronic shutter would be a nice option for "normal" shutter speeds. Usable for church or other times when silence is usefull. 

Edited by Ickx
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I used LV once to check lens/camera focus calibration. Happy if I never use it again. Diff’rent strokes... :)

 

 

I find live-view very useful for focusing and composition when I am using adapted Nikon macro, perspective control, fisheye, and long telephoto lenses on my Leica M10.

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Frankly I have no problems with the M10 being "only 24mp". I can easily get great A2 edge to edge prints, ( as I could/still can, with the Q, the MM1 and the M240 come to that ), and many of the prints are images cropped, sometimes heavily cropped, from the original full frame so I've no complaints here with being "hampered" with "only 24mp".

 

For the inevitable next M about the only thing I would have Leica to do is to address what is in my mind poor accommodation for wide angle lenses with the M series of camera, all of them.

From 28mm down to 18mm an external OVF or EVF, is required and that's maddening. At the very least Leica should have given the M's a finder through which 21mm to 28mm frame lines could be seen.....and yes I know that there's 28mm frame lines in the M10, but they are hard if not impossible to see corner to corner with the present VF's focal length. If they'd offer a .52 VF, even as an ala-carte option then that would help with being able to see the 28mm lines more clearly at least as it does on my M7 with the .52 VF.

 

Maybe I'm in a minority here but I've always regarded the M cameras as being best at close work where their WA lenses shine and see little sense in using them with focal lengths over 50mm and it's a pity that we still have to rely on add-on finder warts to best use focal lengths on and under 28mm. Even the lowly, ( but excellent ), Bessa 4M/A cameras have an internal VF that shows 21 and 25mm frame lines, why hasn't Leica done this....ever?

 

And one other thing, I rarely if ever use the ISO knob so that's ho-hum for me and could just fade away giving the next M a M9-like top profile, but otherwise I'm more than content with the M10, no hurry to see the next iteration.....unless of course they make the viewfinder changes I'd love to have!

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For the inevitable next M about the only thing I would have Leica to do is to address what is in my mind poor accommodation for wide angle lenses with the M series of camera, all of them.

From 28mm down to 18mm an external OVF or EVF, is required and that's maddening. At the very least Leica should have given the M's a finder through which 21mm to 28mm frame lines could be seen.....and yes I know that there's 28mm frame lines in the M10, but they are hard if not impossible to see corner to corner with the present VF's focal length. If they'd offer a .52 VF, even as an ala-carte option then that would help with being able to see the 28mm lines more clearly at least as it does on my M7 with the .52 VF.

 

A variable magnification viewfinder ranging from 0.52x to 0.73x to 0.82x or so would be the ne plus ultra then. Even as an attachment for the existing viewfinder. I've only found a few magnifiers as of yet. 

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My Leica M11 suggestions:

 

Add PC flash connection

Add articulating rear screen

Increase megapixels from 24 to 36 or 45

Provide battery pack accessory for extended usage

Allow lens aperture information to be recorded in EXIF data

Eliminate mandatory noise reduction that is applied to long exposures

Extend 2-minute maximum exposure time for bulb shutter speed setting

Allow multi-field and spot metering patterns while using optical view finder

Allow user to change image aspect ratio (3:2 is all that is available in M10)

Add ability to save more than one custom white balance setting (I need to save at least two)

 

 

Brilliant! Also cover it with solar panels, make three card slots, add a top color LCD screen, make this whole thing autofocus and design a custom cartwheel to haul this small and unobtrusive pocketable marvel of German engineering :)

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30MP sensor that has ISO 25,000 that looks as clean as the M10's ISO 1,600.

 

Bring back the red frame line option.

 

Quieter shutter.

 

Overcome long exposure / bulb time limits.

 

On black body make the lens release button collar and lens mount riser anodized black so I don't have to paint the darn things my self like I did on the M10.

Edited by Reciprocity
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Brilliant! Also cover it with solar panels, make three card slots, add a top color LCD screen, make this whole thing autofocus and design a custom cartwheel to haul this small and unobtrusive pocketable marvel of German engineering :)

I’d like to have a mini tripod built into the base, plus storage for a second battery and sdcard, and an extendible flexible ruler incorporated to assist with macro photography. On second thoughts, why not an integrated laser beam rangefinder instead of the complex optical rangefinder mechanism. Of course, I expect the final product to remain in the M camp and continue to use M lenses. Then it would continue to be attractive to those M fans who appear to always dislike the M series, but don’t want to give up their lenses.

Edited by lucerne
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Honestly after the first year with the M10 I can’t imagine what kind of improvement a M11 should have to make me spend almost € 7,000 again in the near future. I think after a M10 Monochrom I will be done with buying digital Ms for more years than ever since the M8.

 

Just looked up my digital M history:

2007 – Leica M8

2009 – Leica M9 

2011 – Leica M9-P

2013 – Leica M Monochrom Mk1 

2017 – Leica M10

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Brilliant! Also cover it with solar panels, make three card slots, add a top color LCD screen, make this whole thing autofocus and design a custom cartwheel to haul this small and unobtrusive pocketable marvel of German engineering :)

 

I see no reason why you found it necessary to ridicule my suggestions.

If you have suggestions of your own, simply post them.

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