M11 Where To From Here? [merged thread]

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[paulsydaus]

I remember after getting my M240 I wrote my wishes for the next camera such as thinner body, ISO dial, keep the resolution, no movie mode and bigger/better optical viewfinder. I even suggested a way to thin the body down by slightly extending the lens mount. It’s almost like Leica read my post! When I saw the M10 I was blown away.

 

For the M11, I think the improvements may get more incremental because the M10 is already so good. Here’s about all I can come up with (focussing on what can’t be done in firmware):

 

Better EVF as an attachment, aka SL quality and no blackout in EVF/LV.

 

Sensor cleaning.

 

Not sure if this is possible but make the screen flush with the back and top/base plates for aesthetics.

 

Slightly easier way to unlock iso dial.

 

Red dot should indicate on not off.

 

Maybe change to 4 button layout without markings to unify camera operation with that of the S/SL...?

 

Black paint option.

 

Slightly quieter shutter.

 

Not that this is an issue, but continue to strive towards mechanical response times for shutter lag (again, not that current lag is perceptible or an issue at all).

 

Now is the time to start generating input for Leica.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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[strohscw]

ok, here we go, these are my wishes:

 

1.) better EVF which can also be used on my M10

 

2.) 36 MPixels combined with:

 

3.) In Body Image Stabilisation that a higher pixel count makes sense.

 

4.) Electronic shutter

 

That´s it for me.

 

Nevertheless I have to say that I am already very happy with my M10 !

[feelssadman]

>>Sensor cleaning.

Wouldn't that thicken the body a bit?

 

>>Slightly easier way to unlock iso dial.

Mine is pretty easy to unlock already. I guess it would feel choppy/cheap if it would unlock even easier.

>>Red dot should indicate on not off.

I think it's great that way since when using the camera it's going to be turned on most of the time and with the red dot on that position there will be no ""imperfection"" as an angled dot to one side. It's either vertical or horizontal but no in between. Know what I mean? To be honest though, I think there's not even a need for a red dot to show that it is turned on because you just click it to the outermost position on the left and automatically know that it is turned on. Even only by feeling the grippy part.

 

>>Maybe change to 4 button layout without markings to unify camera operation with that of the S/SL...?

I love the three-buttons-only layout because there's no more function that I'd really need to assign to a button on the back of a camera. What function(s) would you assign to a fourth button or what functions would you assign in general to the n buttons on the back?

 

>>Black paint option.

Agree

>>Slightly quieter shutter.

Agree. Wouldn't hurt but not necessary.
 

 

I personally wish to have a variable diopter compensation like on the Leica CL if it wouldn't fuck up the design totally. Aren't they somewhat like a standard by now? Its a bit sad that they are missing on the M.

Getting the Drive Mode selector back would be cool too but that's not necessary.

 

Can't think of anything else.

 

//edit: I'd really LOVE to see a digital level indicator. That's something I sometimes really really miss.

Edited March 8, 2018 by feelssadman

[fatihayoglu]

I think let’s stay here a bit, like 5-6 years. I’ve spent £6k nearly on this camera and don’t want to see a replacement or next model. (I know I don’t have to get the last camera )

 

 

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[albertknappmd]

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36 MP is divine.

Albert     

[Tailwagger]

Getting the Drive Mode selector back would be cool too but that's not necessary.

//edit: I'd really LOVE to see a digital level indicator. That's something I sometimes really really miss.

 

+1.

 

As much as I don't miss accidentally being in C, I want the switch back. Given 16GB cards are cheaper than film, taking an extra unintended frame or two is mostly a non-issue. OTOH, being able to switch to rapid fire in a moment, rather than going through the menus can mean the difference between getting something and nothing.  Equally loss of the level seems a rather odd decision. Quite useful, particular for those times when shooting at 21 and wider.  I'd add, and presumably this is more of an M10 firmware issue, I'd like to see dblclk or press and hold on the dpad center the focus point when in that mode. PITA to have to click 10x or more to center it and often there are off by one errors. 

 

As far as the sensor tech is concerned, I'm in the no IBIS camp. Don't trust moving sensors, particularly over time.  More DR, better highlight control, lower base iso is more useful to me than 50% more pixies, but if they are there, I wont complain. 

 

Key thing for me is keeping it simple and consistent. I own three Leica's, each one has a different interface. Makes sense fro Q to M, but far less so from 240 to 10. I'd hate to see any changes to the back layout. The M10 might not be perfect, but its  fine. Given the internal capabilities remain consistent, I see no need for this sort of differentiation.   The other, far more annoying variation is with respect to the batteries.  As much as I'd like more power capacity, whatever they do, I hope it doesn't involve yet another form factor. Quite annoying to have to purchase and carry pairs of three different battery types.

 

The one place this might not apply is with the EVF.  As much as I'd hate to have to purchase yet another one,  it be nice if this time around, particularly given the cost, it was a fully designed for the M first unit, higher performance unit.  To my mind that means a lower profile, perhaps something along the lines of the GFX 50.   

[Narsuitus]

My Leica M11 suggestions:

 

Add PC flash connection

Add articulating rear screen

Increase megapixels from 24 to 36 or 45

Provide battery pack accessory for extended usage

Allow lens aperture information to be recorded in EXIF data

Eliminate mandatory noise reduction that is applied to long exposures

Extend 2-minute maximum exposure time for bulb shutter speed setting

Allow multi-field and spot metering patterns while using optical view finder

Allow user to change image aspect ratio (3:2 is all that is available in M10)

Add ability to save more than one custom white balance setting (I need to save at least two)

[Jeff S]

Allow user to change image aspect ratio (3:2 is all that is available in M10)

The framelines are still mechanical, not electronically generated...

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/66999-anatomy-of-the-leica-m8-framelines/

 

Jeff

[jonatdonuts]

• Much better battery life. 
• Top right front button replaced with film rewind switch. Bback screen flush with leatherette. 
• 1 stop better iso performance. 
• Retain highlights better. 
• More pronounced thumb wheel grip. 
• Inbuilt sensor cleaning. 

 

But these are minor improvements to an all ready perfect 10. 

[Narsuitus]

The framelines are still mechanical, not electronically generated...

 

 

 

Altering the aspect ratio in live-view is still possible.

[Herr Barnack]

My wish list for the M11 would be -

 

No video

Digital level indicator per M-P 240

Same dimensions as the M10 (would likely preclude image stabilization and sensor cleaning)

Black extended external lens mount

Black lens release button

Black paint option

Black front screw rather than red dot (silver screw for the silver version, obviously)

Top plate engraving per M-P 240

36 mp sensor - contingent upon low light performance not being compromised

Edited March 8, 2018 by Herr Barnack

[OpDraht]

My forecast:

 

- Touchscreen

- NEW BSI-Sensor from TowerJazz

 

I guess earliest within 2021

[Smogg]

My suggestions:

 

Tilting rear screen (to compose from the hip)

Highlight priority metering with optical viewfinder

Improved DR (especially highlights)

No IBIS please! This is just a marketing trick like huge excessive megapixels, 24 MP - enough for 99.9 percent shots

Sensor cleaning

Electronic shutter 1/32000

Quieter mechanical shutter (a little bit)

Better external EVF and no blackout in LV

[feelssadman]

My wish list for the M11 would be -

 

No video

Digital level indicator per M-P 240

Same dimensions as the M10 (would likely preclude image stabilization and sensor cleaning)

Black extended external lens mount

Black lens release button

Black paint option

Black front screw rather than red dot (silver screw for the silver version, obviously)

Top plate engraving per M-P 240

 

 

Looks like the M-P10 specifications list. 

[Tragg]

Just enjoy the camera you own. There are plenty of pro photographers still using an M9. To be honest this sort of thing reminds me of hi fi buffs back in the 70s who bought the albums that  best showed off the specs of their equipment.

[lucerne]

Just enjoy the camera you own. There are plenty of pro photographers still using an M9. To be honest this sort of thing reminds me of hi fi buffs back in the 70s who bought the albums that best showed off the specs of their equipment.

I agree.

Haven’t we spent enough this year. And if we really must debate and speculate on the next M11,can it be separated from this M10 thread. Pushing Leica into a further phase of development at this early stage of the life of the M10 is contrary to the benefits of good product life cycle management.

Profits from the M10 only start to accrue once all the development costs have been recovered, and the cost of producing further M10s will then drop dramatically. That’s when it begins to make real profits. I doubt that Leica has reached the former point.

I know that some forum members don’t consider the position of the manufacturer and only want more and more. Be careful, because at this stage the company has to keep the product selling, or else!

Edited March 8, 2018 by lucerne

[Photon42]

Keep dimensions. Dedicated flash sync port either in body (M3 style) or in the EVF. Even better but unlikely to happen: integrate the EVF into the rangefinder and make it switchable. Improve EVF if possible within current dimensions. Probably needs 36 MP. Add F-Stop again in EXIF. Integrate GPS module in body. Sensor cleaning and IBIS - probably impossible with current dimensions. I guess I am very happy with the M10.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Narsuitus]

Top plate engraving per M-P 240

 

 

I agree and will add this to my list.