Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
colonel

TL2 vs CL

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

A long time ago in a land far far away I had a T and loved it

It was such fun to shoot

I took it to lots of places I couldn’t be bothered taking my M to

To get the most out of it I really thought that the touch shooting experience was done so well

The only thing I really wanted at the time was a silent shutter

 

So silly me sold it

 

Anyway now I want to use the awesome 11-23 as a walk about (more to come on that lens in a different article) and have looked at the TL2 and CL and much prefer the TL2

 

Am I mad (probably)

 

The CL is selling very well, by Leica standards, and the TL2 not so well. Not as bad as the T did originally but the difference is there

 

However I just can’t help myself.

1. The TL2 is just plain more beautiful

2. It’s better made in that it feels more robust, probably as it’s mostly a monoque

3. It’s something fresh and fun and unique. You feel like you are getting some good design R&D for your money. The CL seems a bit dull. Whenever I try it I keep thinking it’s a slightly more robust version of the X-E3.

 

I don’t need the EVF with the TL2 style, although I’ll probably get one. With the CL style an EVF is essential.

 

I love the OLED display on the CL. It’s so cool. If it was in blue I’d have to buy it

 

I’ve always been quirky but is my thought process alien ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Principal gains are bigger rear screen and overall haptics.

Principal loss is add-on versus built-in EVF. And the TL2 EVF is a bit vague for focusing even with x6 mag.

Glad I sold CL and bought TL2, but so far now 'Wow!' on seeing pics, relative to M10 or Q playback. Jury is still out as to whether to sell APS-C camera soon and stick with full frame pair.

Edited by microview

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what you mean by "with the CL style an EVF is essential". You can shoot it at arms length if you wish.

But if you don't want an EVF, then the TL2 is a no brainer IMO: prettier and better interface.

 

I think assessments and worries about robustness are misplaced. Hardly any Leica owner has posted here with a picture of their trashed camera body. On the other hand there are plenty of complaints about internal electronic or electromechanical failures (S AF motor failure, M240 lock-ups, M10 ISO dial failure etc). I don't think you can draw any conclusions about the respective durability of the TL2 and CL from the body shell. IMO both have one obvious risky issue each: lug fittings on the TL2, and battery cover on the CL.

 

I had the TL2 and now have the CL. I am happy with my choice, because I wanted the EVF, though I regret the TL2 interface.

Edited by LocalHero1953

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Principal gains are bigger rear screen and overall haptics.

Principal loss is add-on versus built-in EVF. And the TL2 EVF is a bit vague for focusing even with x6 mag.

Glad I sold CL and bought TL2, but so far now 'Wow!' on seeing pics, relative to M10 or Q playback. Jury is still out as to whether to sell APS-C camera soon and stick with full frame pair.

Agree

Personally I stay out of FF vs APS-C discussions

It’s pointless as they are different formats

 

Wow is a lot to do with the lens

The closest to wow on the TL format is the 55-135mm but the 11-23 is very cool for wide

Have a look at CL&T pics on Flickr. Some great poppy landscape shots with the 11-23 and mystical sharp portraits with the 60mm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what you mean by "with the CL style an EVF is essential". You can shoot it at arms length if you wish.

But if you don't want an EVF, then the TL2 is a no brainer IMO: prettier and better interface.

 

I think assessments and worries about robustness are misplaced. Hardly any Leica owner has posted here with a picture of their trashed camera body. On the other hand there are plenty of complaints about internal electronic or electromechanical failures (S AF motor failure, M240 lock-ups, M10 ISO dial failure etc). I don't think you can draw any conclusions about the respective durability of the TL2 and CL from the body shell. IMO both have one obvious risky issue each: lug fittings on the TL2, and battery cover on the CL.

 

I had the TL2 and now have the CL. I am happy with my choice, because I wanted the EVF, though I regret the TL2 interface.

On robustness I guess I was referring more to perception

I did like it however when cars started to have single piece dashboards - less rattle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Principal gains are bigger rear screen and overall haptics.

Principal loss is add-on versus built-in EVF. And the TL2 EVF is a bit vague for focusing even with x6 mag.

Glad I sold CL and bought TL2, but so far now 'Wow!' on seeing pics, relative to M10 or Q playback. Jury is still out as to whether to sell APS-C camera soon and stick with full frame pair.

 

I should have added that so far I have only used M lenses via the L adapter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest VVJ

I should have added that so far I have only used M lenses via the L adapter.

 

And that is key I feel.  If you used native glass for most practical purposes I doubt whether you would see much difference in image quality between CL/TL2 and M10 or SL or Q.

Edited by JorisV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest VVJ

The closest to wow on the TL format is the 55-135mm but the 11-23 is very cool for wide

 

I personally would rate the 35mm and the 60mm as more wow than the zooms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest VVJ

The CL is selling very well, by Leica standards, and the TL2 not so well. Not as bad as the T did originally but the difference is there

 

The CL clearly outsells the TL2.

 

I don't believe T sales were bad during the first year.  After that sales dropped significantly.  

 

It remains to be seen whether the CL will keep on selling, especially if the IBIS of the Fuji X-H1 makes it into the X-Pro3 and/or X-T3.

 

If Leica is serious about keeping the TL-line they should bring the AF of the TL2 on par with the CL immediately.  

Edited by JorisV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If Leica is serious about keeping the TL-line they should bring the AF of the TL2 on par with the CL immediately.  

 

 

YES! And allow me to move the AF point in spot mode with a single touch instead of touch-and-hold, touch, set. There is simply no logical reason for making it so difficult to move the spot.

Edited by cdekter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Leica is serious about keeping the TL-line they should bring the AF of the TL2 on par with the CL immediately.  

 

 

That and ability to work with external flashes... (it's simply not possible with TL2; and it's simply a menu option. Which CL has)

 

I like the idea of CL and TL being kind of a brother and sister. 

I don't like the idea of CL and TL being a brother and unnecessarily handicapped sister.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest VVJ

YES! And allow me to move the AF point in spot mode with a single touch instead of touch-and-hold, touch, set. There is simply no logical reason for making it so difficult to move the spot.

 

+1.  I still have the TL2 but my 3 reasons to also buy the CL were: built-in (and better) EVF, better AF and faster way to change focus point.

 

With the TL2 I usually fall back on focus and recompose.  Using the touch screen to change focus point is cumbersome and often too slow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest VVJ

I like the idea of CL and TL being kind of a brother and sister. 

I don't like the idea of CL and TL being a brother and unnecessarily handicapped sister.

 

A mini-SL type of camera (similar to the Fuji X-H1) in addition to TL2 and CL would be nice as well IMO but I don't believe that will ever happen.  It would probably cut into SL sales too much. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

YES! And allow me to move the AF point in spot mode with a single touch instead of touch-and-hold, touch, set. There is simply no logical reason for making it so difficult to move the spot.

 

 

Oh I actually don't understand this point. It's it simply a Touch AF? It does "move the AF point with a single touch"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest VVJ

Oh I actually don't understand this point. It's it simply a Touch AF? It does "move the AF point with a single touch"

 

Touch AF is probably the most efficient way of changing focus on the T/TL2.

 

The focus area is larger and less accurate than spot focus though, you often still need to focus and recompose a bit and most importantly you need to take your eye off the EVF.

 

A joystick is IMO the most efficient and accurate way to change focus point without taking your eye off the EVF.  It is IMO no surprise that you have a joystick in the Leica SL, Sony and Fuji.  

 

Also on the CL, I would have preferred a joystick instead of the 4-way D-buttons.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The T, or TL, is still my fun camera. Love the feel of it and even the original takes great photos. Why the CL has sold better is because it looks and feels like so many before it, and is a good camera too, just not for me. No need for it. The TL design is SO different and innovative, people just can’t make that leap. Not in their comfort zone. But the CL was comforting, somehow, to them. But I would hope more future camera designs, Leica or not, go the way of the T and the user interface. Less buttons, more touch screen, which also allows for a larger screen. Hope the TL is here to stay, even though a slow seller.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still own both...however for my style I use most of the time the CL.

I agree the TL/TL2 is more beautifull made, and it is a refreshing camera, and has the beautifully big display if you shoot with the display.

However the CL is more compact (as soon as you like to use an EVF what I do for 70% of my images) and also has the snappier AF, and you can move the focus poin around while having the camera at the eye.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The T, or TL, is still my fun camera. Love the feel of it and even the original takes great photos. Why the CL has sold better is because it looks and feels like so many before it, and is a good camera too, just not for me. No need for it. The TL design is SO different and innovative, people just can’t make that leap. Not in their comfort zone. But the CL was comforting, somehow, to them. But I would hope more future camera designs, Leica or not, go the way of the T and the user interface. Less buttons, more touch screen, which also allows for a larger screen. Hope the TL is here to stay, even though a slow seller.

I had the TL2 and traded it in for the CL. I loved the TL2 design and interface. My preference for the CL is nothing to do with being "unable to make the leap" or because the CL was "comforting". It was almost entirely down to the built-in EVF in a body that was effectively the same size. The other factor was the much faster AF on the CL at the time of launch (for all I know the TL2 has caught up now).

 

I suspect many have made the choice for similar, real world practical, reasons.

 

My ideal would be a CL with TL2 looks and interface.

Edited by LocalHero1953

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had the TL2 and traded it in for the CL. I loved the TL2 design and interface. My preference for the CL is nothing to do with being "unable to make the leap" or because the CL was "comforting". It was almost entirely down to the built-in EVF in a body that was effectively the same size. The other factor was the much faster AF on the CL at the time of launch (for all I know the TL2 has caught up now).

 

I suspect many have made the choice for similar, real world practical, reasons.

 

My ideal would be a CL with TL2 looks and interface.

Well then, good for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue., Read more about our Privacy Policy