Which would you choose: 28mm Elmarit ASPH or 28mm Summilux?

[chasdfg]

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I'm into street and documentary photography, a one lens one camera guy. I never bring more than one lens out at a time, even when travelling. On occasion I do shoots, both paid and unpaid, mostly portraits. I currently own a 28mm Elmarit ASPH, 35mm Summilux FLE, 50mm Summilux ASPH, 50mm Noctilux f1. I previously owned a 28 Summicron v1 and I often found it uninspiring, lacking some "oomph" and too wide as a day-to-day lens. On most days I grabbed the 35FLE or 50lux over it. Admittedly, I was very raw in terms of shooting 28mm and this was several years ago and I personally feel my photography has shifted in the sense I have started to take a liking towards 28mm shots, especially those with layers and context.

 

Having added the 28mm Elmarit ASPH (11677, v2) not long ago I don't find my kit lacking very much at all. I stitch if I need something wider, and find 28mm plenty wide for me. I use either the 50lux ASPH or 50 f1 for portraits and have no issue cropping. I would love to own a 75lux, having owned an 80lux before and used a 75lux on many occasions. It is my favourite portrait lens without a doubt. However, currently on projects/shoots I stick a 35/50 on my only camera (the M240) and work with that setup throughout the shoot. I feel I can get away with shooting an entire session with a 50mm but can't do the same with a 75mm. Moreover, I don't use 75mm for streets. Its use would be too limited to justify purchasing it, and when I am in a Mandler mood I grab the 50 f1. This said, my ideal a two body setup would almost definitely include a 75lux along with a 28/35mm mounted on the other camera.

The current dilemma:
I wish to swap my 28 Elmarit for a 28lux. I wouldn't keep the 28 Elmarit and 28lux at the same time because I don't love 28mm enough to do so. I am very impressed by the photos I've seen shot with the 28lux and don't see it as a lens which competes with my 35lux FLE but one that compliments it. I think a 28-35-50lux ASPH kit is pretty formidable - it is not too bulky, packs a lot of punch and has a rather consistent look. This said, I also have half a mind to not sell the 28 Elmarit but keep it and possibly add the 75lux in the not-so-distant future (especially when I can afford it and a second body). Leaving the 75lux out of the equation for the moment, this is essentially a 28 Elmarit ASPH vs 28 Summilux question. 

Pros for Elmarit:

• It is small. Microscopic. I can really feel a difference after shooting a full day with the 35FLE or 50lux and then mounting the 28 Elmarit. In some sense, this adds to the fun-ness of it. I shoot without the hood because the hood makes it disproportionately larger and because the lens is rather flare resistant.
  
  Buying a 28lux would mean me losing the smallest lens I have. This would mean the 35FLE reclaims that mantle and relatively speaking it is quite a fair bit larger. I have shot the 35FLE without the hood and have encountered unwanted flare more often than I like. I hear shooting the 28lux without a hood helps, but the bulk is already there. I am not sure about the flare resistance.
   
• It is high performing and dependable. I don't think I could ask for more in terms of performance.
   
• I see very little difference in shots taken by it and the 28lux in most situations.
  
  This said, the 28lux does shine between 0.7m to 2-3m. I suspect this because of the thinner DOF.
   
• It is more affordable (several times more affordable - it is here I think the 75lux sort of slips back into the equation in the sense I could buy one with the money I don't spend on the 28lux)

Cons for Elmarit:

• 2.8 can be quite slow for me in lower light. I could handhold slower shutter speeds, but given my other lenses are fast lenses, I do feel the difference. It is more noticeable than I imagined.
   
• 2.8 limits DOF play, which can be useful. Being able to choose whether I want to shoot at 1.4 is very liberating. 
  
  At the same time, forcing myself to use f2.8 is also challenging, in a positive sense.

Why not the Summicron?

While smaller than the 28lux, it isn't as microscopic as the Elmarit. And while the Elmarit's images do not inspire me (similar to the 28Cron's images - i.e. lacking "oomph"), it's size does. I love bringing it out. While f2 is fast enough for me, I find it lacks the charm and fun-ness of the Elmarit and the look of the images the 28lux gives.

 

 

What are your thoughts? I would love to hear opinions about what you would do in my shoes and opinions of those of you who have chosen one over the other or are both 28 Elmarit and 28lux users. 

[Peter H]

I have the 28mm Summicron which is, in my experience, the ideal lens for the type of photography you're interested in.

 

Depending on how you look at it it combines the advantages or the disadvantages of the Elmarit and the Summilux, sitting right in the middle on speed, size and price, and to my eye has an interesting look of its own. Don't write it off so easily, is my advice.

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[NigelG]

+1

Try the latest summicron first. I switched from the elmarit ASPH v2 and much prefer it - to me it has a ‘sparkle’ and yet a softness - difficult to describe, that I find much nicer than the ‘crispy’ elmarit.

With the new larger hood on the elmarit and the new smaller one on the summicron they’re the same size......(I always use the hood so YMMV)

[SiggiGun]

Recently I was asking to me the same question, hesitating between 28Lux etc,... finally I decided to buy the 28Cron. My decision was based on the fact that I have a 35Lux (=> No special need for a second Lux) and the 28Cron is smaller and less heavy. I am happy with my choice.  During a recent trip to Rome I put 28cron and 50AA in my back. Here are the results. However, if you like work every time with 1.4, whatever the subject is, street, landscape, nature, indoor, .... Take the 28Lux, a great lens,... too  

[otto.f]

I don’t need many Summiluxes, they are heavy and one Summilux in my bag is enough. I see many contradictions in your wish for the 28lux. The 28 is not that much your angle but you’re willing to buy the most expensive version.

 

So the basic line is that you are attracted to it. As it happens often with attraction to Leica lenses from forum-members, the forum mostly can’t talk them out of it, how irrational such an attraction may be. But I think that a Summilux in wide-angles has a lot less surplusvalue over a Summicron than for instance with a 75mm. My turning point for that lies at 35mm.

 

You don’t see the Summilux75 as a street lens, but you do see the Summilux28 as a street lens... ??

 

Here’s a series of 75lux as a street lens: http://lotwouda.zenfolio.com/p735541593

[FrozenInTime]

In the long term, only way to win at this game is to go for either the Summicron or both the Elmarit and Summilux .

I tend to prefer the small Elmarit in during the longer summer days and suffer the increased size of the Summilux only when seeking the fast aperture : but on the equator, with constant daylight hours, I can see how there would be more of an internal conflict.

[BJohn]

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I own only two lenses, SL28 and SL50. For me, that's enough. You have a lot more, so this may be a tough decision. I can't help you with that, but what I can do is to state that the SL28 is a marvelous lens. Most of the time, I use the SL28. Sometimes I pick the SL50 for more intimate close-up shots. But all the rest is done with the SL28 and it really delivers. Of course, most of the result is directly linked to the photographer. But given you are an excellent one, I believe you would see a difference. The SL28 renders in a tremendous stunning way. As you mentioned the DoF: the SL28 creates a very unique look shot wide open.

 

http://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2016/7/18/leica-28mm-summilux-the-perfect-vacation-lens

 

Here you can see a few examples of using the SL28 wide open and at a reasonable distance for creating that unique look.

Edited March 3, 2018 by BJohn

[chasdfg]

I appreciate all your replies

 

@PeterH, NigelG and SiggiGun
Thanks for the reminder not to overlook the 28mm Summicron - I thought I had thought it through, but it does seem quite compelling on paper. I've seen pics of the v2 versions of the cron and elmarit with hoods on and the difference is negligible to me, and I would prefer to shoot with the hood on than off. 

 

One reason keeping me from buying the Cron is opportunity cost in the sense if I do I will have to wait to fork out more for a 75lux with the difference. In my current situation it is more or less 28 Elmarit + 75lux or 28lux alone while selling the elmarit. That said, these things are just a matter of time for I will probably get a 75lux next year if I go for the 28lux, so same can be said if i go for the 28Cron

 

@otto.f
I agree that once someone is drawn to a lens it becomes difficult to convince them otherwise. In my case I am drawn to both the Elmarit and Summilux, so it's more of a need to be swayed to keep the Elmarit, go for the lux, or possibly the cron. Reason why I am willing to spend on the 28lux is because I prefer 28 to 50 for my own day-to-day shooting. It is only because I find 50mm has more unique optics I happen to have 3 (I failed to mention I have an adapted 50mm 1.4 Nikkor from the Millennium S3 set). If the elmarit and lux were the same cost, I think I'd still be in the same predicament if i had to choose between them. A scenario of size vs 1.4. I could travel with a 35lux or 28mm and be happy but I couldn't do so with a 50mm alone. When I'm on a two week trip with just one lens, the tiny nature of the elmarit or the flexibility of the 1.4 in the lux are both qualities I appreciate. I suppose the compromise could be the 28Cron. Maybe the real question is whether I can compromise between both qualities or whether I want one over the other.

 

I've seen your photos shot with the 75lux in previous threads. They are very lovely and show why I want one. Nevertheless, 75mm for streets is something which I will do maybe once a year. It just isn't my style. I know they are different focal lengths, but when I had the 90APO I brought it out to shoot streets twice only just to "re-try" shooting streets with a longer lens. A 28mm would be more of a daily shooter in this respect.

 

@FrozenInTime
If you could choose just one 28mm, which lens would it be? Taking this lens to be the only lens you bring to travel say South East Asia.

 

@BJohn

The DOF at 1.4 at closer distances is really what makes this lens so special to me. I'm not sure if it's just DOF or both 1.4 and rendering style which makes it stand out over the 28Cron. I suppose if i were in your shoes and the 28lux was my only lens wider than 50mm, the cost and size are justified.

Edited March 4, 2018 by chasdfg

[Jeff S]

All of these lenses are capable of superb results in an overall print workflow. Buy what makes you happy, not someone else. Demo or rent if you’re not sure.

 

Heck, buy a MATE and get 3 focal lengths in one travel lens.

 

Jeff

[michaelwj]

The Elmarit.

It’s optically great but the real beauty is the size. I couldn’t live with a lens that intruded into the VF too much. Plus it’s thousands of dollars cheaper.

[stephan54]

Although the summilux 50asph is my favourite lens, the 28 elmarit asph is a close second. I find it extremely useful for streetscenes and candids and the 2.8 is no obstacle on an M10.

[enboe]

Shudder (or is that shutter) the thought, just one 28!  Well, if pushed, the 28/1.4 would be my keeper.  It's bigger and heavier, but no more so than an equivalent on a Nikon body.  One gets use to the weight in a day or less, and I have made it my only lens on two vacation trips.  Of course I also adore the 28/2.8/ASPH-I as well.  I own both, and the compact size even with the hood installed (note version 1 of the ASPH), it's a fun kit.  I am hunting for one in silver to match my bodies if you have any leads, by the way.  Oh, I forgot the rationale.  The 28/1.4 gives the subject separation you mentioned, the two extra stops which matter less now with an M10, and is generally gorgeous.  The 28/2.8 is all about small, light, sharp, and good value.

 

It sounds like you need to hunt down a 75/1.4 or perhaps the 75/2.0.  Perhaps another thread on which to choose there is next.

 

Eric

[oldwino]

Sounds like you want to buy the 28 Lux. If you can afford it...do it.

[StevieB]

The 28 Summilux photo's I've seen look amazing, Summilush!

[mmx_2]

Get the Summicron 28, then you have the same E46 filter size as lux 35 and lux 50. The latest version of the Summicron has a similar and as convenient screw on hood as the lux 35. The lux 28 is very nice but heavier, has e49 filter size, is very expensive and only offers one more stop. Since you are not a 28-lover I would save that money and buy something in the long end instead. A used late elmarit 90 is very nice for portraits and also utilizes e46 filters.

[fabior]

I decided to buy the summilux and I am very very  satisfied . I also have a new 28 summaron from one year but they are very different for size and for strengths so both have their own reason to be . I have had 2 elmarit 28 3d version but I sell them because I didn't like them for rendering and size. 

[chasdfg]

I have decided that my current plan is to go for the 28lux, but will attempt to avoid selling the 28 Elmarit to fund it (for now).

 

Reason being:

- 28mm is as wide I would go on the M (no finders, etc). Moreover I used a 24mm 1.4 extensively on Nikon and I found it took wide for day-to-day shooting. If one takes the 21lux, 24lux and 28lux collectively (I know they're different) to be able to best play on the wide-angle, thinner DoF look, the only option I have is the 28lux. 

 

- There are other small lenses out there. The previous version 28 Elmarit ASPH, 35Crons and 40 Summicron all come to mind. None of them might perform as well as this 28 Elmarit in terms of raw performance though (overall sharpness, contrast, corner performance - maybe the 35 Cron ASPHs). Beyond Leica, there's the 35mm UC-Hexanon. 

 

- I don't intend to add a second body any time soon, because the one body setup works well for me when doing shoots (with a 35mm or 50mm mounted). Taking photos for others happen maybe 5 to 6  times a year at best and half of them will always be unpaid for a social cause or for friends. I can't justify a second body just for these occasional shoots which don't pay. The lack of a second body means no 75lux for now too. 

 

- The biggest factor for me is whether I would use the lens for travel as I only bring one lens to do so (because this is an extension of a day-to-day lens, just that during a trip I don't have the option to swap lenses). The 35lux has served me very well in this respect. It does an ok job for portraits when I have to, works well for a daily lens and wide enough for the most part (at worst, I stitch). I would happily travel with the 28lux, but have my reservations on travelling with the 28 Elmarit. 2.8 on the M240 can be a bit limiting - both for the random portrait-esque people shots and in lower light. I give up size, but having traveled for long trips with the 35lux alone, I never yearned for a smaller lens. I handled the 28lux again over the weekend. I could definitely feel its heft. The extra 100g won't kill me though. I am ok with viewfinder blockage.

 

I don't know if this is me finding a way to justify the lens, or if these points are sensible.

[jmahto]

 

I have decided that my current plan is to go for the 28lux, but will attempt to avoid selling the 28 Elmarit to fund it (for now).

 

Reason being:

- 28mm is as wide I would go on the M (no finders, etc). Moreover I used a 24mm 1.4 extensively on Nikon and I found it took wide for day-to-day shooting. If one takes the 21lux, 24lux and 28lux collectively (I know they're different) to be able to best play on the wide-angle, thinner DoF look, the only option I have is the 28lux. 

 

- There are other small lenses out there. The previous version 28 Elmarit ASPH, 35Crons and 40 Summicron all come to mind. None of them might perform as well as this 28 Elmarit in terms of raw performance though (overall sharpness, contrast, corner performance - maybe the 35 Cron ASPHs). Beyond Leica, there's the 35mm UC-Hexanon. 

 

- I don't intend to add a second body any time soon, because the one body setup works well for me when doing shoots (with a 35mm or 50mm mounted). Taking photos for others happen maybe 5 to 6  times a year at best and half of them will always be unpaid for a social cause or for friends. I can't justify a second body just for these occasional shoots which don't pay. The lack of a second body means no 75lux for now too. 

 

- The biggest factor for me is whether I would use the lens for travel as I only bring one lens to do so (because this is an extension of a day-to-day lens, just that during a trip I don't have the option to swap lenses). The 35lux has served me very well in this respect. It does an ok job for portraits when I have to, works well for a daily lens and wide enough for the most part (at worst, I stitch). I would happily travel with the 28lux, but have my reservations on travelling with the 28 Elmarit. 2.8 on the M240 can be a bit limiting - both for the random portrait-esque people shots and in lower light. I give up size, but having traveled for long trips with the 35lux alone, I never yearned for a smaller lens. I handled the 28lux again over the weekend. I could definitely feel its heft. The extra 100g won't kill me though. I am ok with viewfinder blockage.

 

I don't know if this is me finding a way to justify the lens, or if these points are sensible.

 

I don't find 28cron as limiting in low light compared to 35lux (or 50lux). The reason being that I can handhold 28mm at much lower shutterspeed compared to 35 or 50. I find 28 cron adequate enough on M240 for evening/street night scenes handheld while traveling.

[MarkP]

I don't find 28cron as limiting in low light compared to 35lux (or 50lux). The reason being that I can handhold 28mm at much lower shutterspeed compared to 35 or 50. I find 28 cron adequate enough on M240 for evening/street night scenes handheld while traveling.

+1

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[JTLeica]

 

I have decided that my current plan is to go for the 28lux, but will attempt to avoid selling the 28 Elmarit to fund it (for now).

 

Reason being:

- 28mm is as wide I would go on the M (no finders, etc). Moreover I used a 24mm 1.4 extensively on Nikon and I found it took wide for day-to-day shooting. If one takes the 21lux, 24lux and 28lux collectively (I know they're different) to be able to best play on the wide-angle, thinner DoF look, the only option I have is the 28lux. 

 

- There are other small lenses out there. The previous version 28 Elmarit ASPH, 35Crons and 40 Summicron all come to mind. None of them might perform as well as this 28 Elmarit in terms of raw performance though (overall sharpness, contrast, corner performance - maybe the 35 Cron ASPHs). Beyond Leica, there's the 35mm UC-Hexanon. 

 

- I don't intend to add a second body any time soon, because the one body setup works well for me when doing shoots (with a 35mm or 50mm mounted). Taking photos for others happen maybe 5 to 6  times a year at best and half of them will always be unpaid for a social cause or for friends. I can't justify a second body just for these occasional shoots which don't pay. The lack of a second body means no 75lux for now too. 

 

- The biggest factor for me is whether I would use the lens for travel as I only bring one lens to do so (because this is an extension of a day-to-day lens, just that during a trip I don't have the option to swap lenses). The 35lux has served me very well in this respect. It does an ok job for portraits when I have to, works well for a daily lens and wide enough for the most part (at worst, I stitch). I would happily travel with the 28lux, but have my reservations on travelling with the 28 Elmarit. 2.8 on the M240 can be a bit limiting - both for the random portrait-esque people shots and in lower light. I give up size, but having traveled for long trips with the 35lux alone, I never yearned for a smaller lens. I handled the 28lux again over the weekend. I could definitely feel its heft. The extra 100g won't kill me though. I am ok with viewfinder blockage.

 

I don't know if this is me finding a way to justify the lens, or if these points are sensible.

 

 

Unfortunately if you are anything like me, when you have something in your mind that you want, you are probably going to buy it... Regardless of rationale or justification. To add to this, I have both the new Elmarit and the Lux, I love the 28 Lux and if I kept only three lenses it would be one of them. Its probably my second favourite lens and has a pretty distinct look to it. Its relatively large, larger than the 35 Lux / 50 Lux but it feels nice on the camera.

 

I say go for it. Its fabulous in low light, 1.4 that is razor sharp coupled with a wide FL makes it very usable at low shutter speeds.