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Leica SL Summicron lenses too big?


simon_hsn

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For me, this is a little bit of a bummer, as I think that size does matter, also on a pro system. How come, that a 50 mm and 35 mm f2 are 10 x 7 cm large? I would much appreciate, if the lenses would be smaller (shorter), this would make the SL much more usable as a travel and street camera. Ideally, they could share the same 67 mm filter threat, but be much shorter, say 5 cm. 

 

What do others think?

 

SL is not a street camera. It is a professional system geared towards commercial photography and video, not photo journalism. If you want small, get M, just that simple.

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For my understanding the reason is effectiveness in manufacturing as all 4 Crons share the same parts.

 

Secondly user Experience is due to same size .. 1 Filter fits all lenses ... haptics is pretty much the same etc...

 

that means just less accessories in your bag when you are on location

 

Leica‘ s approach makes reasonably sense to me

Edited by peka69
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No one designed a Rolleiflex TLR to be a "street camera", yet the work of several photographers shows conclusively that it was quite capable of being used inconspicuously for street photography. 

 

No one designed a Leica M to be a landscape camera, yet the wok of several photographers makes a convincing case that it is quite capable of being used for that too. 

 

The Leicaflex SL is the same size as a Leica SL and also the same size as a Nikon F. Prime lenses for the Leicaflex SL and Nikon F are also pretty similar in size to the SL lenses, but for length because the Leica SL has a shorter lens mount register. I've used all three of these cameras for both landscape and street photography very successfully. 

 

A camera is what you make of it, what purpose you put it to. If you want a very compact camera, there are plenty out there: go buy one. If you want a Leica SL and its state of the art lenses... go buy one of those. What you do with any of them is up to you. 

 

9576188483_82b359b5b6_o.jpg

Leicaflex SL + Summicron-R 90mm f/2

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"... I'm not convinced though that size is the main or even an actual advantage for mirrorless..."

 

I agree, though unfortunately most people are thinking so.

For me the main advantage of mirrorless systems lies in the principle of sensorbased focussing. That's a huge benefit compared to every other focussing mechanism ( be it Rangefinder or SLR).

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SL is not a street camera. It is a professional system geared towards commercial photography and video, not photo journalism. If you want small, get M, just that simple.

 

Well, as others said before, that's not mandatory. For example look at Doug Menuez' recent work and his love affair with the Leica SL ;) .

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I agree, though unfortunately most people are thinking so.

For me the main advantage of mirrorless systems lies in the principle of sensorbased focussing. That's a huge benefit compared to every other focussing mechanism ( be it Rangefinder or SLR).

 

Exactly!! No more... "is my lens sharp, maybe I need to send it in for calibration"

 

I did that so many times with Sigma and Nikon... I would just bring them in. I live in Long Island.

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Ramarren said it all from a fotografers point of view and I do agree. From a technical perspective I assume that from a cost point of view Leica had a design goal to have as many parts in common as possibile across the Summicron product line. E.g. the extremely complex focus mechanics and electronic. And the 2 motor drives define the size at least a significant bid for all these lenses equally.

Pricewise the SL lenses are rather ‚reasonable’ in comparison to M lenses - look at the number of glass elements, electronic, motor drives .... SL lenses do need additionally. So, common parts across the line are THE essential ingredient. Otherwise the Summicrons would equal the price of a 75 mm Noctilux.

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Well, as others said before, that's not mandatory. For example look at Doug Menuez' recent work and his love affair with the Leica SL ;) .

 

Well, who wouldn't fall in love with SL? :)

Some 10 years ago on a bet i spent a day doing street photography with Canon 1D MarkII and a 24-70 zoom. Got a bunch of shots, one of them ended up in my recent book. Also ona few occasions i did it with Contax 645, just to challenge myself. The point is, if you know what you are doing, you can do street photography with a view camera, but if you REALLY know what you are doing, you will choose a tool that fits your style and physical condition the most.

 

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I just found another opinion about this topic, which might be interesting for some of you. I certainly agree with most points in the article, it is an interesting read. 

 

Link: http://thephotofundamentalist.com/leica/leica-apo-summicron-sl-lenses/

 

"This means that anyone wishing to take a good line up of SL primes with them on their travels will have the Summicrons as their lightest weight option. The weight of their camera bag will be comparable to that of a Nikon D850/Canon 5D IV with all f1.4 pro primes."

 

"I will also point out the other elephant in the room: f2 does not replace f1.4. Anyone wanting very shallow depth of field for portraits may find that even the APO Summicron-SL 90mm f2 doesn’t deliver the soft and gooey backgrounds than a 85mm f1.4 lens can, but that’s another topic altogether."

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I just found another opinion about this topic, which might be interesting for some of you. I certainly agree with most points in the article, it is an interesting read. 

 

Link: http://thephotofundamentalist.com/leica/leica-apo-summicron-sl-lenses/

 

"This means that anyone wishing to take a good line up of SL primes with them on their travels will have the Summicrons as their lightest weight option. The weight of their camera bag will be comparable to that of a Nikon D850/Canon 5D IV with all f1.4 pro primes."[/size]

 

"[/size]I will also point out the other elephant in the room: f2 does not replace f1.4. Anyone wanting very shallow depth of field for portraits may find that even the APO Summicron-SL 90mm f2 doesn’t deliver the soft and gooey backgrounds than a 85mm f1.4 lens can, but that’s another topic altogether."[/size]

 

I suggest you could read the interview with Peter Karbe the designer of the SL summicrons to understand the innovations that went into this glass. And how it is on par with 1.4 primes.

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Having he chance to see the 75 and 90mm lens at Leica they were smaller than I had expected, not small, but not 24-90 large.   Smaller length and diameter made them well balanced and easy to use.  Nonetheless, they're not for me, I'll continue to use my 24-90 and M lenses.   Choices are always a benefit, I'm glad to have them available.  I'll shoot them when I get back to the store, doubting that Leica has overcome the physics that make a f2 setting perform as an f1.4. 

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Having he chance to see the 75 and 90mm lens at Leica they were smaller than I had expected, not small, but not 24-90 large.   Smaller length and diameter made them well balanced and easy to use.  Nonetheless, they're not for me, I'll continue to use my 24-90 and M lenses.   Choices are always a benefit, I'm glad to have them available.  I'll shoot them when I get back to the store, doubting that Leica has overcome the physics that make a f2 setting perform as an f1.4. 

 

 

.... "doubting that Leica has overcome the physics that make a f2 setting perform as an f1.4."

 

Yeah...those statements make me skeptical as well. 1.4 is 1.4 :)

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.... "doubting that Leica has overcome the physics that make a f2 setting perform as an f1.4."

 

Yeah...those statements make me skeptical as well. 1.4 is 1.4 :)

....... well there were graphs/diagrams and a logical explanation of how the ‘in focus’ area has become compressed and gives the same ‘look’ as 1.4, without contravening the laws of optics. Yet again I suspect we are dealing with the rather badly named concept of ‘micro-contrast’ which Leica have manipulated to accentuate the ‘in focus’ area ....

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Having he chance to see the 75 and 90mm lens at Leica they were smaller than I had expected, not small, but not 24-90 large.   Smaller length and diameter made them well balanced and easy to use.  Nonetheless, they're not for me, I'll continue to use my 24-90 and M lenses.   Choices are always a benefit, I'm glad to have them available.  I'll shoot them when I get back to the store, doubting that Leica has overcome the physics that make a f2 setting perform as an f1.4. 

 

"Nonetheless, they're not for me, I'll continue to use my 24-90 and M lenses."

Honestly said, when testing the 75 SL at my local dealer I couldn't discover IQ-differences compared to my 24-90 @75 (apart from DOF, of course). Moreover, AF of the Vario had been more "smoother" and even a little bit faster. The lack of OIS is somewhat disappointing too...I have to admit Canon's new 85, 1.4 IS L (!) is a really brilliant lens in this regard...

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well said...

 

i use my SL with M lenses and 5DSR only for street photos and the occasional food assignments

 

 

No one designed a Rolleiflex TLR to be a "street camera", yet the work of several photographers shows conclusively that it was quite capable of being used inconspicuously for street photography. 

 

No one designed a Leica M to be a landscape camera, yet the wok of several photographers makes a convincing case that it is quite capable of being used for that too. 

 

The Leicaflex SL is the same size as a Leica SL and also the same size as a Nikon F. Prime lenses for the Leicaflex SL and Nikon F are also pretty similar in size to the SL lenses, but for length because the Leica SL has a shorter lens mount register. I've used all three of these cameras for both landscape and street photography very successfully. 

 

A camera is what you make of it, what purpose you put it to. If you want a very compact camera, there are plenty out there: go buy one. If you want a Leica SL and its state of the art lenses... go buy one of those. What you do with any of them is up to you. 

 

9576188483_82b359b5b6_o.jpg

Leicaflex SL + Summicron-R 90mm f/2

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....... well there were graphs/diagrams and a logical explanation of how the ‘in focus’ area has become compressed and gives the same ‘look’ as 1.4, without contravening the laws of optics. Yet again I suspect we are dealing with the rather badly named concept of ‘micro-contrast’ which Leica have manipulated to accentuate the ‘in focus’ area ....

 

Interesting that they compared the 75mm Apo Summicron to an old design 75mm Summilux, a well loved Mandler design known for it's beautiful portrait rendering at f1.4 (soft).   Mumbo jumbo?   Or am I not keeping up with the latest optic talk?

 

 

 

Higher Contrast

for greater visual depth

With a maximum aperture of f/2, the SL-Summicron lenses are significantly more compact than even faster lenses, but still allow photographers to work with similar depth of field. The reason for this is contrast: the area of highest contrast is incredibly sharp, while zones with lower contrast are unsharp or beautifully blurred.

Kontrastberg_teaser-1316x878.jpg

In the case of SL-Summicron lenses, this difference in contrast is considerably higher than that of conventional lenses: sharply focused objects show much higher contrast than objects that are out of focus. This means that objects “pop” more distinctly out of the foreground or background and more effectively isolate the subject. This creates a three-dimensional visual effect with very impressive depth.

 

Edited by darylgo
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"Leica’s own marketing segregation is designed to have ‘the average Leica user’ operate two systems in tandem (SL and M or TL), by denying SL users any compact and light lens options."

 

Brilliant;)

 

It must be a delicate balancing act to design that many many bodies and lenses so that they are complementary and not overlapping...  ;)

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