gyoung Posted February 21, 2018 Share #41 Posted February 21, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) No - it shouldn't. The present problem in our part of the world is getting staff with a modicum of sense, as there is full employment for capable employees. I suspect this was a trainee with the supervisor at lunch. Then I don't think much of their staff selection and training procedures. Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 Hi gyoung, Take a look here Astounded and livid at the advice I have received from Leica CS. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted February 21, 2018 Share #42 Posted February 21, 2018 No - it shouldn't. The present problem in our part of the world is getting staff with a modicum of sense, as there is full employment for capable employees. I suspect this was a trainee with the supervisor at lunch. OT, but it's not just your part of the world suffering from a lack of skilled staff. we have the same problem in all sorts of walks of life and it's particularly noticeable in my industry, property and construction. It's a massive constraint on property development and regeneration. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 21, 2018 Share #43 Posted February 21, 2018 Despite all, the UK is still part of North-Western Europe, willing or not... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 21, 2018 Share #44 Posted February 21, 2018 Then I don't think much of their staff selection and training procedures. Gerry Try running a business in the present times - it is a miracle to get staff that is halfway trainable... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted February 21, 2018 Share #45 Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) .. If the camera and lens were sold as a kit I would imagine that it would have the serial numbers of both items together on the box. It would not surprise me if Leica had indeed used old stock for the kits , but had not kept track of this fact giving rise to the situation described by Wilson.... William If one has the original box on can check this: The box has a sticker which shows the exact day when the product was packed into the box. So someone who wants to find out wether the item he buys is old or new stock he only has to look on the sticker. There may be some time lapse between production and boxing, but certainly not three years. There are no stores with lenses or cameras in the attics of Wetzlar or Solms anymore - but maybe some items lie on the shelves of the dealers for some years - usually in their boxes with the original stickers I don't think that "kits" have common boxes for cameras and lenses. But it is well possible that some items which are separately built and usually sold on their own are sold as a "kit" together. Edited February 21, 2018 by UliWer Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share #46 Posted February 21, 2018 If one has the original box on can check this: The box has a sticker which shows the exact day when the product was packed into the box. So someone who wants to find out wether the item he buys is old or new stock he only has to look on the sticker. There may be some time lapse between production and boxing, but certainly not three years. There are no stores with lenses or cameras in the attics of Wetzlar or Solms anymore - but maybe some items lie on the shelves of the dealers for some years - usually in their boxes with the original stickers I don't think that "kits" have common boxes for cameras and lenses. But it is well possible that some items which are separately built and usually sold on their own are sold as a "kit" together. The kit does come in a common box, marked with the name CL + 18-56 Vario Elmar Lens kit. I will post a photo tomorrow. Only the outer brown thin cardboard box has the manufacture date on it. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted February 21, 2018 Share #47 Posted February 21, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) No sticker like this on the inner "silver" box? (Date on the right) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/282027-astounded-and-livid-at-the-advice-i-have-received-from-leica-cs/?do=findComment&comment=3466288'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share #48 Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) No sticker like this on the inner "silver" box? (Date on the right) I will check tomorrow on the inner white box and the two silver and black boxes inside that but there was definitely a date (which I did not check) on the outer brown cardboard box. I did not keep that. Wilson Edited February 21, 2018 by wlaidlaw Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 21, 2018 Share #49 Posted February 21, 2018 That's the most valuable bit ...... they go for a fortune on eBay ...... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted February 21, 2018 Share #50 Posted February 21, 2018 I will check tomorrow on the inner white box and the two silver and black boxes inside that but there was definitely a date (which I did not check) on the outer brown cardboard box. I did not keep that. Wilson I have just advised a friend who acquired one of these kits in Dublin today that he should take a photo of all labels on the boxes that came with the kit. It is something I do when disposing of any box that came with consumer electronics items. I assume that Leica are still not causing issues for you, Wilson. This is an open and shut case. Indeed other issues might arise if Leica were selling a 3 or 4 year old lens in a package with a 2017 manufacture date, but we don't need to go there, I hope...... etc William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share #51 Posted February 21, 2018 I have just advised a friend who acquired one of these kits in Dublin today that he should take a photo of all labels on the boxes that came with the kit. It is something I do when disposing of any box that came with consumer electronics items. I assume that Leica are still not causing issues for you, Wilson. This is an open and shut case. Indeed other issues might arise if Leica were selling a 3 or 4 year old lens in a package with a 2017 manufacture date, but we don't need to go there, I hope...... etc William Leica UK case are on the case now with assistance from Ffordes. They appear to be reasonably sympathetic to my request for replacements not repair but we will have to wait to see what the gods in the Elysian fields of Wetzlar decide. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdave Posted February 22, 2018 Share #52 Posted February 22, 2018 I just bought a kit containing the Leica CL and 18-56 lens from POPFLASH PHOTO on Feb 15, 2018. I was able to register the camera's serial number on the Leica owners site, but I was not able to register the lens. It was listed as an "unknown" number and directed me to contact the support people by email. I just sent them off an email with relevant info. I will not be very happy if they included an older "new" lens in this kit. Very unsettling for a camera kit of this cost. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 22, 2018 Share #53 Posted February 22, 2018 I will not be very happy if they included an older "new" lens in this kit. Very unsettling for a camera kit of this cost. Leica has always done its manufacturing and final assembly in batches. That's why identifying the age of an M or R lens by its serial number is an art, not a science. Numbers are assigned in ranges and not all numbers are eventually manufactured. With a mechanical lens, I don't see what problems would arise with "old stock." Perhaps electronic components inside an autofocus or IS lens are more susceptible to aging. My M8, which has seen little use since about 2009 and has been shelved, had some sensor problems when I tried it out last week. So I'm not surprised that lens availability for the CL has been good, because I expect that some of the lenses could have been tested and packaged for sale during the 2+ years that the T, TL, and TL2 have been shipping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 22, 2018 Share #54 Posted February 22, 2018 You have to bear in mind with all this that only one part of the lens/body is marked with a serial number ..... either stamped or laser etched. This is not necessarily done anywhere near the actual assembly time and might even be a part from a previous run of production that has been unused or re-used. It does not meant that the rest of the lens, camera body or innards are not current production. Leica in the past have asssigned batches of numbers to a particular run of components ....... and the final use may be years after that batch was numbered. The number is logged with the product type and date. The only important date is the assembly/testing date ...... and the closest you will get to that is the date on the brown box. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 22, 2018 Share #55 Posted February 22, 2018 I just bought a kit containing the Leica CL and 18-56 lens from POPFLASH PHOTO on Feb 15, 2018. I was able to register the camera's serial number on the Leica owners site, but I was not able to register the lens. It was listed as an "unknown" number and directed me to contact the support people by email. I just sent them off an email with relevant info. I will not be very happy if they included an older "new" lens in this kit. Very unsettling for a camera kit of this cost. Dave The registering hiccup was due to the numbers not being placed into the database yet. That would indicate that the lenses were very recent production. If it had been produced a while ago, the list would surely have been actualized. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share #56 Posted February 22, 2018 My past history with Leica repairing electronic items has not been a happy one and with the expansion of their CS department, I am less confident than ever, of their abilities to reassemble two complicated items with multiple and fragile ribbon cables, a number of measurement critical adjustments and dozens of connections, so as to function perfectly both short and long term. I note that Apple often now replace rather than trying to repair their similarly complicated, densely packed and compact electronic devices, after a problem. I took in to my local Apple store, a two year old 128GB iPad Air 2, whose battery was dying but otherwise was fault free. I paid the battery "replacement" price of £79 but was given a brand new iPad, which actually has a much better battery than the original one ever did, so I suspect the battery has been ungraded in the two years since the original was made. The old iPad will be recycled for raw materials. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted February 22, 2018 Share #57 Posted February 22, 2018 The non sequential issuing of SNs has always been there with Leica lenses going back to the early 1930s. This is however a 'red herring' in this case. In Wilson's case Leica were refusing to apply warranty terms to a lens supplied with a kit only a few months ago. This is a far more significant issue, which, hopefully, is resolved by now. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted February 22, 2018 Share #58 Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) My past history with Leica repairing electronic items has not been a happy one and with the expansion of their CS department, I am less confident than ever, of their abilities to reassemble two complicated items with multiple and fragile ribbon cables, a number of measurement critical adjustments and dozens of connections, so as to function perfectly both short and long term. I note that Apple often now replace rather than trying to repair their similarly complicated, densely packed and compact electronic devices, after a problem. I took in to my local Apple store, a two year old 128GB iPad Air 2, whose battery was dying but otherwise was fault free. I paid the battery "replacement" price of £79 but was given a brand new iPad, which actually has a much better battery than the original one ever did, so I suspect the battery has been ungraded in the two years since the original was made. The old iPad will be recycled for raw materials. Wilson I can give you an example of really good customer service. I had a Seagate back up drive with a 2 year warranty which I had purchased from PC World. It went kaput a few months ago, just within the 2 year limit, but I could not find the receipt. I went into PC World to buy a new one. I asked the guy at the customer service desk could he trace my original purchase transaction via my credit card. This he was able to do and he gave me a full refund. I was able to buy a new drive for less than the cost of the old one as the price had fallen in the intervening 2 years. I call that real customer service; a new drive with a small 'profit'. William Edited February 22, 2018 by willeica 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted February 22, 2018 Share #59 Posted February 22, 2018 The date issue has been there for ever, I bought my M3s in 1968, years later I checked and found that they were part of the last major batch, with serial numbers listed as '1966'. Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted February 22, 2018 Share #60 Posted February 22, 2018 The date issue has been there for ever, I bought my M3s in 1968, years later I checked and found that they were part of the last major batch, with serial numbers listed as '1966'. Gerry You can go back to 1931 with this issue. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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