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wlaidlaw

Astounded and livid at the advice I have received from Leica CS

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I have just received an advice from Leica Customer Service about my CL which I sent to them with a broken lens release and the consequently stuck on 18-56, all bought new  from Ffordes as the CL 18-56 kit on 22 November 2017. I also mentioned to CS that the lens had what looked like silvery aluminium machining debris/swarf between the first and second groups in the lens.

 

They have come back to me to say that, as this lens was manufactured in 2014 it is out of warranty and want to charge me €191.32 for cleaning their own manufacturing debris out of the lens. I have gone back to them expressing in the strongest terms, my annoyance at being sold as new in November 2017, a lens that has been kicking around for over three years. Things like seals, plastic and electronic parts all deteriorate with time as well as use. In fact electronic components usually deteriorate worse if they are not powered up. I have asked that the lens be replaced FOC with a new and recently manufactured lens. 

 

I thought this sort of thing was in Leica's past and with the improved management, did not happen nowadays. I don't think I am being unreasonable in asking for the lens to be replaced. 

 

Wilson

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No you are fully within your rights. No doubt under your consumer legal protection. I suspect that the issue will disappear as soon as it reaches the proper level in Wetzlar. I wonder whose shelves it was on. Ffordes? Wetzlar?

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No you are fully within your rights. No doubt under your consumer legal protection. I suspect that the issue will disappear as soon as it reaches the proper level in Wetzlar. I wonder whose shelves it was on. Ffordes? Wetzlar?

 

Jaap, 

 

It all came in the one kit (sealed) box, so it must have been lying about in Wetzlar (or Tokyo). I have sent a copy of my response to CS to my contact person at Wetzlar, who I am sure, as usual, will sort things out. 

 

Wilson

Edited by wlaidlaw

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Truly unbelievable.  Shameful.

 

My understanding of warranty is that the clock starts ticking as of the date the lens/body/whatever is received by the buyer, not the date it was manufactured.

 

As for -

 

They have come back to me to say that, as this lens was manufactured in 2014 it is out of warranty and want to charge me €191.32 for cleaning their own manufacturing debris out of the lens.

- that kind of unprofessional nonsense is simply unconscionable.  Someone needs to be on the receiving end of some very stern consequences if not a pink slip for that one.

 

This account of Leica's "customer service" doesn't make me want to trip over myself to sink $3800 USD for a CL and 18 Elmarit.

Edited by Herr Barnack

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Wilson's contract is with ffordes, not Leica.

 

He should have contacted them immediately the swarf was visible and demanded a replacement lens.

 

The date of manufacture of the lens is immaterial to its warranty status, I agree, but the rectification of the problem lies squarely with ffordes.

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Yes Wilson, you should get onto Ffordes immediately, they are responsible to you for this. As they have apparently sold you old stock - according to the manufacturer - I'd demand a refund for the lot and go elsewhere.

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Wilson's contract is with ffordes, not Leica.

 

He should have contacted them immediately the swarf was visible and demanded a replacement lens.

 

The date of manufacture of the lens is immaterial to its warranty status, I agree, but the rectification of the problem lies squarely with ffordes.

 

Andy, 

 

I only noticed the swarf when I took off the lens hood to pack up the body and stuck on lens for sending back to Leica. My contract of sale is as you say with Ffordes but the warranty lies with Leica. Ffordes would not have had any idea the lens was 3+ years old, as the body and lens were all sealed up inside the one kit box. The lens and body kit has a single part number. 

 

Wilson

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Yes Wilson, you should get onto Ffordes immediately, they are responsible to you for this. As they have apparently sold you old stock - according to the manufacturer - I'd demand a refund for the lot and go elsewhere.

James,

 

See my reply to Andy. Ffordes not at fault. They sent on the body+lens kit to me the day they received it from Leica. 

 

Wilson

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It is an interesting thing that the kit lens was old stock. What is the number? Mine was apparently so new that they had to update their site to allow me to register it, but now I am doubtful, although, it is in Wetzlar now and they did not even ask about the purchase date.

Anyway, thinking this over, it appears to me that it was an Azubi handling it.   What did Andrea say?

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Jaap, 

 

My Serial number 4345479.

 

Like you, I could not register my lens to begin with, as it was not on their database. That is why I wonder if it might have been sitting in Japan, not Germany. It was Tezgel originally handling my case and nothing heard back from either him or Andrea as yet but due to time difference, their office may well have been closed by the time my responses were received. You have to wonder the point of registering the lens as a new purchase on the owner database, with a date of purchase, if Leica work on the date of manufacture. 

 

Wilson

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When you ask for a repair directly at Customer Care you may use the „Repair &Service Document“ which you can download from the Leica Webite

 

http://uk.leica-camera.com/Service-Support/Repair-Maintenance

 

In this web form you are asked for warranty documents.

 

Though even if you did not send any documents about your purchase they might ask again when they notice it‘s a brand new model - or better: just assume that it was bought new together with the lens without posing many questions.

 

I don‘t want to say that Customer Care is generally below standard - that would be wrong.

Though sometimes I get the impression that it is understaffed and people working there havn‘t got enough time to keep in touch with the actual Leica production. Leica Camera should try to improve this: more and better informed people working for Customer Care would show they care for their customers.

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When you ask for a repair directly at Customer Care you may use the „Repair &Service Document“ which you can download from the Leica Webite

 

http://uk.leica-camera.com/Service-Support/Repair-Maintenance

 

In this web form you are asked for warranty documents.

 

Though even if you did not send any documents about your purchase they might ask again when they notice it‘s a brand new model - or better: just assume that it was bought new together with the lens without posing many questions.

 

I don‘t want to say that Customer Care is generally below standard - that would be wrong.

Though sometimes I get the impression that it is understaffed and people working there havn‘t got enough time to keep in touch with the actual Leica production. Leica Camera should try to improve this: more and better informed people working for Customer Care would show they care for their customers.

 

I did complete the repair form and enclosed it with the body/lens. I emphasized that this was a body/lens kit bought as a single item. Given that the CL has only been available since October 2017, it has to be in warranty and sending a copy of the receipt, is a waste of my time. Leica knew it had been bought from Ffordes and the date. Leica's own records should have shown that this serial number lens was sold as part of a composite kit and the date that the kit left Wetzlar on its way to Leica UK. If it doesn't, then that is Leica's database inadequacy not mine. 

 

Wilson

Edited by wlaidlaw

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James,

 

See my reply to Andy. Ffordes not at fault. They sent on the body+lens kit to me the day they received it from Leica. 

 

Wilson

It may not be their fault, but they are legally obliged to sort this out. 

It sounds like the person responding to you did not know, or missed the info, that the lens was sold recently. That's a piece of mix up that wouldn't happen if you went through the seller.

My Thambar has gone back to be recalibrated - grossly out. Although this was not Red Dot's fault, it has gone back to Wetzlar through them - they had no doubt it was their responsibility.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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James,

 

See my reply to Andy. Ffordes not at fault. They sent on the body+lens kit to me the day they received it from Leica. 

 

Wilson

Contractually, ffordes ARE at fault. It’s up to them to take the matter further with Leica.

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I would have been straight on to Ffordes for them to sort things out to your satisfaction before even thinking of sending camera/lens to Germany. The Scottish company has always been highly satisfactory to buy from: I recently wanted to cancel an (unfulfilled) order and a refund was paid into my bank account without hesitation.

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Definitely talk to ffordes - when I had problems they were extremely helpful (much more so than Leica) and the problem was resolved quickly and effectively, even though it was not their fault. You should choose to buy from companies like this precisely because, from time to time, you need good support.

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Basic UK consumer law, your contract is with the retailer - Leica are denying your warranty in any case so you need to take this up with Ffordes. Also, Wilson, if you paid for it with a credit card I would report the issue to them as they are also liable to resolve any issues with faulty goods (although from my experience they do try to fob you off to start with).

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Sorry guys I disagree. I am a registered professional with Leica and usually get the full service fast turn around, professional treatment, direct from Wetzlar. My professional client number was shown both in emails and on the repair form. The camera was found to be faulty on the first day of a three and a bit week trip to the Caribbean and New Orleans. I was not too happy, as I was unable to use my newly bought 11-23 lens or the M & R lenses I had taken with me. I emailed Andrea at Leica on the day I found the CL broken, who is my contact person. She was very apologetic for the trouble that the broken and jammed lens release was causing me and arranged for a UPS pick up label to be waiting for my return, for a direct warranty repair service from Leica. I only noticed the debris in the lens, as I was packing up the camera up for the pre-arranged collection that same day, when I was removing the lens hood.

 

I am sure if I had contacted Ffordes they would have been delighted to arrange a repair. I have never had anything but impeccable service from them. However that would have involved sending the camera to them in Scotland, for them in turn to send back down to Leica UK, who would then in turn send to Wetzlar. The camera would probably not even reach Wetzlar until next week as opposed to last week. I want it back quickly. It was only this afternoon that I received the nonsense from Tezgel in CS ,about the lens being manufactured in 2014 and therefore out of warranty. I have never found Andrea anything other than very helpful over the years I have been dealing with her. She is a problem solver not maker. 

 

Involving Ffordes at this stage only confuses matters. Hopefully it will all get sorted out to my satisfaction over the next day or so. It if doesn't, then I will speak to Steve Byford at Ffordes. 

 

Wilson

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I will send Steve Byford the link to this thread and ask for his comments. 

 

Wilson

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