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Early post-war IIIc


Pecole

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It was in very bad condition, but when this IIIc Nº443517 was offered to me, it was said to be one of the very first being imported in Belgium in 1946, immediately after imports from Germany were allowed. The person who bought it - and sold it to me - had been instructed to carefully keep the Belgian Customs seal attached!

The "sharkskin" covering and the bad quality of the chrome finish were typical of early post-war production.

 

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Hi Pecole,

 

I always find your posts educational and interesting, especially when showing items from your collection.

 

This one though, has left me puzzled as to the production date of my 3C (converted to 3F black dial).

 

The link on this site to serial no dates says mine (430346) is from 1946, whilst it states yours (443517) is (obviously not) a 2C from 1948.

 

The conversion may account for the fact my 3C(F) has good chrome with no flaking or loss, plus smooth leather (ie: not sharkskin). 

 

When do you believe my camera might have been produced?

 

Also,is there another reference you can recommend for giving production dates against serial nos.?

 

 

 

 

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1949 is the year of my birth. When I started collecting Leicas, I sought out IIIcs from 1949 and ended up with two of them. The first was SN 485856 which has sharkskin covering and chrome with a lot of damage, but not near as bad as the example shown above by Pecole. The second one I got was SN 485593 which had been converted to a IIIf Black Dial. It still has its sharkskin covering, but the chrome work is in perfect condition. I suspect it was re-chromed when it was converted by Leica. I suspect that the converted IIIc owned by iphoenix got the same treatment.

 

I would love to see the black paint IIIc owned by JC. Is it a 'non stepper'? There is an interesting video here showing the manufacture of Leicas in 1937 and 1946, although it is difficult to attach the footage to the either of the two dates. I suspect the footage with commentary is pre-war, but I could be wrong.

 

 

William

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1949 is the year of my birth. When I started collecting Leicas, I sought out IIIcs from 1949 and ended up with two of them. The first was SN 485856 which has sharkskin covering and chrome with a lot of damage, but not near as bad as the example shown above by Pecole. The second one I got was SN 485593 which had been converted to a IIIf Black Dial. It still has its sharkskin covering, but the chrome work is in perfect condition. I suspect it was re-chromed when it was converted by Leica. I suspect that the converted IIIc owned by iphoenix got the same treatment.

 

I would love to see the black paint IIIc owned by JC. Is it a 'non stepper'? There is an interesting video here showing the manufacture of Leicas in 1937 and 1946, although it is difficult to attach the footage to the either of the two dates. I suspect the footage with commentary is pre-war, but I could be wrong.

 

 

William

 

My personal view is that figures and listings - including serials and models - relative to immediate post-war years (1945-47) are at least "suspect" and most probably not reliable. "Facts" very often contradict published lists...

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Thanks Pecole. I have long suspected this and it is not surprising given that post war production was only getting on its feet in those years. The only facts I can rely upon are that the two post war IIIcs (I have 3 war-time IIIcs, including two grey models) I have are from around the time I was born and that one of them was converted and the other was not.

 

William

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1949 is the year of my birth. 

 

I would love to see the black paint IIIc owned by JC. Is it a 'non stepper'?

 

William

1948 it's mine...

This IIIc post war stayed for 35 year in a senior, old and close friend, collector cabinet before I can convince him to sold me it.

You can see already it on my web site at the IIIc page.

But here are 3 pict I just take for you :

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our friend Alan was showing his very early "post-war" some time ago https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/277313-the-very-early-post-war-iiic/.

We call them "wartime", "stepper", "postwar" however more appropriate would be Type 1 and Type 2. There are much more differences, hidden inside, between these two types than step and eye adjust lever. 

As to black paint IIIc - the only ones, officially recorded (Hasbroek, etc) black paint IIIc are from so called "Leitz Eigentum" series. Less than 100 cameras produced. 

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1948 it's mine...

This IIIc post war stayed for 35 year in a senior, old and close friend, collector cabinet before I can convince him to sold me it.

You can see already it on my web site at the IIIc page.

But here are 3 pict I just take for you :

There is something curious about this black IIIc : I never saw one with apparent no-paint fastening screws...

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our friend Alan was showing his very early "post-war" some time ago https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/277313-the-very-early-post-war-iiic/.

We call them "wartime", "stepper", "postwar" however more appropriate would be Type 1 and Type 2. There are much more differences, hidden inside, between these two types than step and eye adjust lever. 

As to black paint IIIc - the only ones, officially recorded (Hasbroek, etc) black paint IIIc are from so called "Leitz Eigentum" series. Less than 100 cameras produced. 

attachicon.gif1.JPGattachicon.gif2.JPG

 

 

I have recorded the following post war IIIc Leitz Eigentum cameras:

517397  chrome

517408   black

517432   black

517461  black

517486  black

517510  black

571511  black

517519  black

 

So the estimate of 100-120 seems reasonable if the series was continuous.  Actual production dates would be interesting, as they may have been spread over time. Can anyone provide factory record information?

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our friend Alan was showing his very early "post-war" some time ago https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/277313-the-very-early-post-war-iiic/.

We call them "wartime", "stepper", "postwar" however more appropriate would be Type 1 and Type 2. There are much more differences, hidden inside, between these two types than step and eye adjust lever. 

As to black paint IIIc - the only ones, officially recorded (Hasbroek, etc) black paint IIIc are from so called "Leitz Eigentum" series. Less than 100 cameras produced. 

attachicon.gif1.JPGattachicon.gif2.JPG

 

 

My Leica IIIc black is numbered 509174 and has been illustrated here earlier. Nevertheless, I give again some images here. It is not "Leitz Eigentum".

 

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Pierre ça valait la peine d attendre jusqu'à aujourd'hui......

en MP je vous confirme rai l identité de celui qui me l'a cédé et que vous connaissez bien depuis longtemps

 

Pierre pas moyen de vous envoyer un Message Privé pourquoi ? voir sur votre profil

Je  vousai répondu pa message, en vous donnant mon mail. Merci.

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