Bullies? -moved thread-

[ModernMan]

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Your persistently negative comments are one of the reasons I rarely bother with this forum any more.

 

 

My feelings are similar to yours, as is my course of action. Your comment inspired me to expand on the subject.

 

For a long time these forums have been a podium for thought bullies who respond negatively to posts which are at variance with their ideology of how leica fanboys should think. This is probably a small, negative, but vocal minority of the community, but has become emblematic of the treatment that non-conforming ideas receive here. On a positive note, many of the most vitriolic thought bullies have gradually faded away over the last decade, and there are numerous excellent contributors.

 

The responses of the self-appointed guardians of the protocols of Leica fandom include the following forms, without loss of generality:

(1) kurt dismissal

(2) judgment of lack of Leica worthiness (people who think like that belong with a Cannon or Nikon)

(3) outright flailing abuse (e.g.: people who have that thought should have their cameras blow up in their face)

(4) irrelevance to cognoscenti (if Leica offered that I, who am a Leica disciple, would never buy/use it)

(5) weariness (oh no, not this tiresome subject again)

(6) unspoken principles (this guy obviously doesn't get "it" or they wouldn't suggest such an idea)

(7) invocation of the infallibility of Leica product managers (Leica did it that way for a good but inexplicable-to-us-mere-mortals reason)

 

The thought bullies often have deep and accurate factual knowledge. The issue is the manner of expression of opinion, not factual knowledge. Importantly, the later does not exculpate transgressions of the former.

 

The moderators would have done well over the years to enforce civil and collegial discourse on all relevant topics, and consistently sanction forum bullies.

 

In my experience and opinion that has not been the culture here, rather the opposite. Which is why I too seldom bother with these forums any more.

[jaapv]

My feelings are similar to yours, as is my course of action. Your comment inspired me to expand on the subject.

 

For a long time these forums have been a podium for thought bullies who respond negatively to posts which are at variance with their ideology of how leica fanboys should think. This is probably a small, negative, but vocal minority of the community, but has become emblematic of the treatment that non-conforming ideas receive here. On a positive note, many of the most vitriolic thought bullies have gradually faded away over the last decade, and there are numerous excellent contributors.

 

The responses of the self-appointed guardians of the protocols of Leica fandom include the following forms, without loss of generality:

(1) kurt dismissal

(2) judgment of lack of Leica worthiness (people who think like that belong with a Cannon or Nikon)

(3) outright flailing abuse (e.g.: people who have that thought should have their cameras blow up in their face)

(4) irrelevance to cognoscenti (if Leica offered that I, who am a Leica disciple, would never buy/use it)

(5) weariness (oh no, not this tiresome subject again)

(6) unspoken principles (this guy obviously doesn't get "it" or they wouldn't suggest such an idea)

(7) invocation of the infallibility of Leica product managers (Leica did it that way for a good but inexplicable-to-us-mere-mortals reason)

 

The thought bullies often have deep and accurate factual knowledge. The issue is the manner of expression of opinion, not factual knowledge. Importantly, the later does not exculpate transgressions of the former.

 

The moderators would have done well over the years to enforce civil and collegial discourse on all relevant topics, and consistently sanction forum bullies.

 

In my experience and opinion that has not been the culture here, rather the opposite. Which is why I too seldom bother with these forums any more.

The moderators do not recognize this criticism and would remind you that "disciplining" "bullies takes place behind the scenes and not by fellow forum members.

It is very simple. If you feel slighted by a post, or feel that a post is inappropriate, use the warning  button and the moderating team will step in. Flailing other members for being "bullies" or disagreeing with one's opinion is just as bad as bashing, insulting, calling fanboys and fighting. Those behaviours will not be accepted.

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[andybarton]

Just to confirm that the Mods are not "self-appointed" nor do they receive any reward for their time.

 

Neither the Mods nor Admin can read every post in every thread. If any member comes across any post that they feel is offensive or in breach of the rules, everyone is encouraged to report that post for consideration.

 

This is how you report a post

 

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This will send a message to all the Mods and Admin, so that the reported post and/or member can be dealt with appropriately. The Mods and Admin will usually discuss any sanction that may be necessary, unless the reported post is blatantly in breach of the Forum Rules.

[Guest tofu_man]

seems to be a bit of censorship by the mods going on here 

[jaapv]

Censorship? There is not one altered or deleted post in this thread. Even so, there is no unlimited free speech on this (private) forum; we all have to abide by the rules that the forum owner sets.

 

I think it might be useful that you read the first post of this thread:

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/209327-what-the-leica-forum-is-for/

[masjah]

seems to be a bit of censorship by the mods going on here 

 

So two Moderators explain the procedure for reporting objectionable posts, and that's censorship? What nonsense! (Please feel free to report this post if you find it objectionable.)

[LocalHero1953]

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seems to be a bit of censorship by the mods going on here 

Nice emoji!

Love-hate relationship with the forum?

[AdamSinger]

I am new to this forum. I am impressed with the advice one can get from the collective view about kit, especially to those new to the Leica world.

 

I am not new to Leica. For 40 years I have been a Leica user, and have a sock draw stuffed full of Leica’s told the wife it was my pornography stash so she would not be tempted to see how much family funds were diverted to the worship of Leitz. Only joking the one piece of erotic art I have is my Cyclops Contarex. Which as Ivor Mantle camera collecting guru par excellence wrote: "If you buy just one SLR to admire stroke hold in front of the fire on a winters evening and never load it with film it should a Contarex Cyclops"

 

Leica is a major passion for me, except for the greatest CRF ever made the Contax ll (only joking but I do love Contax CRFs ) , and unquestionably the coolest rangefinder evah , the only one Darth Vader would use, and graced a Bob Dylan LP cover the Nikon SP. I also love Rollies , Hassies, Linhofs For me the German Camera industry has that Tolkinesque sense of lost elven greatness, that British Motor Bike industry had, or that you can find in a real Bentley, (real Bentleys were made between 1921 and 31, after that they were badging exercises) in other words my passion for Leica is also in part my adoration of the romance, that is the German Camera industry, and like all great romances it is made richer by designs and decisions that 'exceeded their grasp'.

 

(oh BTW I know Hassys are not all German, just the bit which you smudge with your fingers where the light goes in is German, the rest comes from Abba'ville)

 

I am also impressed with the quality of moderation.

 

For me the story of Leica is not just the equipment, but the commercial decisions, its place in the market, . Its highs as in the Standard or the M3 and its lows the Leicaflex and the M5, both happen to be favourite cameras of mine but in the commercial history of Leica almost killed it. I mention this as there should be room for dispassionate historical reflection, I have noted that to present the duality of Leica, to wit the greatest camera of all time. hooray! But at the end of the day Leica is just a commercial asset, floating on the same vicissitudes of fiscal fate as any other business is to risk cries of heresy.

 

Still, I enjoy the forum and thank you for facilitating it and to all for feeding it.

Edited July 17, 2018 by AdamSinger

[Overgaard]

You ignore the bullies and focus on the valuable advice and comments.

 

What you focus on, you will get more of. The more attention you give to bullies and negative comments, the more you will get of it.

 

I agree with the admins and mods, you report content that is not in the spirit of the forum. 

[Gelatino]

A forum is, as it was in ancient Greece a public place. All may express opinion, not all others may agree, and no one is forced participate to a debate he doesn't feel good to be involved in.

Fortunately, this forum is virtual  and any show of force is virtual, so... RELAX.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Gelatino