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#1 ganzosrevenge

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:42

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Anyone here going to try their hand at the Auction? :D.

 

It's my first time, what advice is there from those who have bid (and won?)


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#2 UliWer

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:51

One should be careful with indicated prices:

 

"For items exported to Non EC countries, the premium is 20% (if you use LIVEAUCTIONEERS or EpaiLive: 25%).
For items not exported outside the EC the premium is 24% (if you use LIVEAUCTIONEERS: 30%)
On items marked with * 20% VAT will be added on hammerprice and premium for buyers within the EC."

 

So an Item for which you place a successful bid for 1000,-€ will cost you 1200,-€ at least in the US.

 

In the EC it will cost 1240,- and if it is marked with an * it will be almost 1500,-€.

 

 

 



#3 willeica

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:07

Some discussion on the forum here should help.

 

https://www.l-camera...classic-leicas/

 

William



#4 ganzosrevenge

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 14:31

I'm not in the EC, so with regards to vat I don't worry about that.

And the premium and shipping is why I'm sticking to small amount lots

Edited by ganzosrevenge, 14 February 2018 - 15:19.

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#5 willeica

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 16:22

I'm not in the EC, so with regards to vat I don't worry about that.

And the premium and shipping is why I'm sticking to small amount lots

 

You may have import duties in your own country, of course. However, taxation issues only arise if you win a lot or lots. There are plenty of pieces of generic advice about participating in online auctions in the link that I posted above. Westlicht does not feature that many small amount lots now compared to 5 years ago and average value of the items on offer has gone up in recent years. There are other auctions which feature more items with a lesser value such as Rahn (Photographica) and Breker in Germany and LP in Sweden and Tamarkin in the US. There is also an auction service called SAS in the UK which occasionally features cameras, but their online presentation is poor and it is really only for people who can attend. The same advice, as is contained in the link, applies to competing in any online auction for cameras.

 

William


Edited by willeica, 14 February 2018 - 16:33.

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#6 wlaidlaw

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 19:40

I buy occasional bits and pieces from Peter Coeln at Westlicht's associate company, The Leica Shop in Vienna. His prices are high but in my experience, the quality is commensurate. I have never won anything at their auctions in spite of a number of tries, where prices often seem high. especially taking buyers' commission into account. My personal view is that the combination of sellers' and buyers' commission rates look a tad greedy. Not just at Westlicht but at many other online auctioneers. 

 

Wilson


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#7 willeica

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 19:52

I buy occasional bits and pieces from Peter Coeln at Westlicht's associate company, The Leica Shop in Vienna. His prices are high but in my experience, the quality is commensurate. I have never won anything at their auctions in spite of a number of tries, where prices often seem high. especially taking buyers' commission into account. My personal view is that the combination of sellers' and buyers' commission rates look a tad greedy. Not just at Westlicht but at many other online auctioneers. 

 

Wilson

 

You could well be right, but it is a pure marketplace where competition between two or more bidders can determine the price. Bidders need to have a drop out point at which they will walk away from the auction. In determining your drop out point you need to factor in the premium, any taxes and delivery charges and, if you are buying as a user, you also need to add in possible CLA costs. I have won quite a few items at auctions, but I have probably let as many items go as I have won. The Collectiblend website, which averages the results of previous auctions, is a good guide. The quality at Westlicht and the Leica Shop is generally good and items are properly graded. All purchases from whatever source require a good pinch of 'caveat emptor', of course.

 

William



#8 ganzosrevenge

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 21:11

Perhaps, but it is the purest form of free market, and for items where the market has been dead, it can help with reawakening that items market.

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#9 Susie

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 08:28

I have bought several items from the auctions at SAS in Newbury UK over the years, but there have been many more that I have not gone for. 

 

In recent years the quality of Leica items coming up there has gone down, but of course, that is not of their doing!  The last two times I have gone (I always go to look at the items in person) the cameras have all been poor 'user' quality, often quite tatty and all have needed servicing, and yet have sold for what I would consider a fair price for an example in good condition, but always to internet bidders.  Although to be fair my mint Mountain Elmar and 7.3cm Hektor came from them.

 

My local auctioneers (Sworders) had a sale on Tuesday with two Leica lots. One was a 111B which was estimated at £800 - £1000!  The shutter did not open at 1/1000sec and it needed a general service. It did not sell.

 

The second was a large wooden dealer's Leica 111, with a real 111 on a cast plaster hand. Again it did not sell.  The camera was okay, and the wooden one was interesting, but I would not wish to pay the estimated £4k for it!

 

Best wishes,

 

Susie



#10 willeica

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:13

I have bought several items from the auctions at SAS in Newbury UK over the years, but there have been many more that I have not gone for. 

 

In recent years the quality of Leica items coming up there has gone down, but of course, that is not of their doing!  The last two times I have gone (I always go to look at the items in person) the cameras have all been poor 'user' quality, often quite tatty and all have needed servicing, and yet have sold for what I would consider a fair price for an example in good condition, but always to internet bidders.  Although to be fair my mint Mountain Elmar and 7.3cm Hektor came from them.

 

My local auctioneers (Sworders) had a sale on Tuesday with two Leica lots. One was a 111B which was estimated at £800 - £1000!  The shutter did not open at 1/1000sec and it needed a general service. It did not sell.

 

The second was a large wooden dealer's Leica 111, with a real 111 on a cast plaster hand. Again it did not sell.  The camera was okay, and the wooden one was interesting, but I would not wish to pay the estimated £4k for it!

 

Best wishes,

 

Susie

 

I was speaking about doing the SAS auction on-line, as going to Newbury on spec would be an expensive proposition for me. I have got some nice items from the SAS auction, but doing it online is a bit of a pain compared to other auctions and I don't bother anymore. SAS needs to bring its online presentation and functionality into the 21st century.

 

William



#11 Susie

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 19:22

I agree William. 

 

The point I was making is that unless one is very careful, buying from auction on-line can be a costly disapointment. It is over 200 mile round trip for me to Newbury, but I'd rather pay the petrol and save on buying something that is not of the standard I wanted. Twice now I have got there, looked at the items and left!

 

The other downside is that on-line bidders, unaware of the condition, often push the price beyond an item's worth taking servicing etc., into account.  The days of a bargain at auction seem to be over!

 

Susie


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#12 willeica

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 22:11

I agree William. 

 

The point I was making is that unless one is very careful, buying from auction on-line can be a costly disapointment. It is over 200 mile round trip for me to Newbury, but I'd rather pay the petrol and save on buying something that is not of the standard I wanted. Twice now I have got there, looked at the items and left!

 

The other downside is that on-line bidders, unaware of the condition, often push the price beyond an item's worth taking servicing etc., into account.  The days of a bargain at auction seem to be over!

 

Susie

 

I have bought something online at every auction held by Westlicht since 2012, except the one (100th anniversary) I actually attended in Wetzlar in 2014. I agree with you about online bidders raising prices beyond reasonable levels. A lot of these bidders are from wealthy regions outside of Europe. The acid test in the forthcoming auction will be the price of the 0 Series Leica No 122 and whether this is more or less than the world record price set in 2012. I have a feeling that the interest of such buyers from outside Europe has waned in the past 6 years, but I could be wrong. We will only know when the auction is over.

 

William


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#13 ganzosrevenge

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 07:31

I'm sticking to leicaflexes. They're my Leica drug

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#14 wlaidlaw

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:42

I have bought something online at every auction held by Westlicht since 2012, except the one (100th anniversary) I actually attended in Wetzlar in 2014. I agree with you about online bidders raising prices beyond reasonable levels. A lot of these bidders are from wealthy regions outside of Europe. The acid test in the forthcoming auction will be the price of the 0 Series Leica No 122 and whether this is more or less than the world record price set in 2012. I have a feeling that the interest of such buyers from outside Europe has waned in the past 6 years, but I could be wrong. We will only know when the auction is over.

 

William

 

William,

 

I suspect the reduction in some very specialist Leica item prices may at least partially, be down to the decease of a significant number of serious Leica collectors in Japan. Many of them, I understand from my Japanese friend, are now in their 70's, 80's or more. After their decease, their collections are often put on the market, as their spouse or children do not share the same love/obsession of the collector. My Japanese friend, who is a Leica enthusiast (also like me, in his 70's), has acquired a number of Leica items for me over the last two years, at quite reasonable prices. I have suggested he might like to make a business out it but he says he is too busy. I stay with him when I visit Tokyo. 

 

Wilson


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#15 willeica

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 18:03

William,

 

I suspect the reduction in some very specialist Leica item prices may at least partially, be down to the decease of a significant number of serious Leica collectors in Japan. Many of them, I understand from my Japanese friend, are now in their 70's, 80's or more. After their decease, their collections are often put on the market, as their spouse or children do not share the same love/obsession of the collector. My Japanese friend, who is a Leica enthusiast (also like me, in his 70's), has acquired a number of Leica items for me over the last two years, at quite reasonable prices. I have suggested he might like to make a business out it but he says he is too busy. I stay with him when I visit Tokyo. 

 

Wilson

 

I am inclined to agree that we have seen the high point of the market and that prices are now more modest or soft as they might say in the trade. The proof of the pudding will be in the 0 Series item. I suspect it will go for less than the similar item sold in 2012.

 

William



#16 ph.

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 19:57

I have only bought one camera from Leicashop (an Alpa Standard) -picked it up myself rather than using the mails. Fair price, good condition and excellent service. 

 

For auction sales a long time ago I used Christies. They were rather sloppy. Imprecise descriptions and selling at least one item below my reserve price. I have corresponded with Westlicht, but they seem to prefer cherrypicking rather than selling several items.

 

p.



#17 willeica

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 08:38

There have been two bids already and the 0 series is already at 600,000 Euro, with 3 weeks still to go before the auction.


William


Edited by willeica, 17 February 2018 - 08:44.


#18 ganzosrevenge

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 00:33

And I stopped looking at Leicaflexes after the one i wanted went past my limit  :unsure:


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#19 wlaidlaw

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:28

There have been two bids already and the 0 series is already at 600,000 Euro, with 3 weeks still to go before the auction.


William

 

William, 

 

I presume you are waiting until it gets into the serious money before putting your bid  :)

 

Wilson



#20 willeica

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 10:35

William, 

 

I presume you are waiting until it gets into the serious money before putting your bid  :)

 

Wilson

 

When you get to that level you need a well informed 'agent'. I must talk to mine, but I doubt if she will agree!

 

William


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