otto.f Posted February 16, 2018 Share #21 Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I’m allergic to color problems with CMOS sensors. I swapped my M10 for the SL for that reason and see a much better AWB in all kinds of artifical lights. I read in dpreview that the colors of the A9 are often off and behind the competition even the competition within Sony. I found the A7 already much too warm/orange. The A9 costs about 4000€ and will return used a lot less than an SL I guess. So I wouldn’t dive into an adventure if I were you Edited February 16, 2018 by otto.f 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 Hi otto.f, Take a look here Sony A9 making me rethink Leica Setup - any A9 owners?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lx1713 Posted February 20, 2018 Share #22 Posted February 20, 2018 I tried lots of settings to find the most effective AF target acquisition - in the end what helped most was to actually pause between zooming to take the photo.. i can relax now Thanks for the reminder. It's an older technique I used with my older Canon cameras. They aren't as good with AF compared to the newer Canons. Need a stable platform like a tripod to improve AF acquisition and improved keeper rate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lx1713 Posted February 20, 2018 Share #23 Posted February 20, 2018 I'm trying a variation of prefocus. Works reasonably well except for really fast moving events and sports. Tap on the BL button for a magnified image. Tap on the joystick button to pre-focus at the chosen spot. It will briefly show a focused image before going back to unmagnified view. Take the shot. It does require me to take my hands off the lens focus and zoom portions which irks me. However, in backlit conditions it can be helpful as it will adjust for the magnified portion. If I'm doing this a lot. I feel that the handgrip helps to steady me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eprom Posted February 20, 2018 Share #24 Posted February 20, 2018 I love the SL and use it with 24-90. The 24-90 is the best lens I ever owned and I had a lot, also Leica M-lenses. When it comes to AF and buffer the SL sucks in comparison to the A9. I do a lot people-shoots and the SL can´t compete with the A9. But when the (shooting-)situation is not so fast the SL is the hero because of the epic output. I use the A9 with GM 24-70 which is a very good lens but the 24-90 plays in an other league. I also own 35 and 50 Sony Zeiss, both 1,4 - both very good but not as good as the SL 24-90. So I choose the A9 when I need speed or wide open aperture and I for everything else I use the SL. I also have the S-E which I sell now because the IQ of the files is not that much better than from the SL. Doing portraiture with the SL is much more comfortable because of the more versatile AF than the one of the S. There is no camera that fits every needs. For every situation you need the right tool. Best, Peter__ 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eprom Posted February 20, 2018 Share #25 Posted February 20, 2018 There's a key issue, that I keep trying to ignore - but one of the main reasons why I want the A9 was a fashion walk - I discovered you cannot fire flashes using electronic shutter mode. If you choose mechanical shutter mode you get choppy EVF and the AF doesn't track as well between shots (to be confirmed). I think the AF-tracking of the A9 is the best you can get. What do you mean with choppy EVF - the blackouts while exposing that every DSLR or mirrorless has? The A9 is first mirrorless cam that is able not to blackout the viewfinder while continuous shooting and that with 20fps and AF ... and it works great! If you need flash, that´s right you have use the mechanical shutter like the other cameras do do you really need flash on the catwalk?) but the AF works well and I assume not worse like other cameras. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancook Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share #26 Posted February 20, 2018 I think the AF-tracking of the A9 is the best you can get. What do you mean with choppy EVF - the blackouts while exposing that every DSLR or mirrorless has? The A9 is first mirrorless cam that is able not to blackout the viewfinder while continuous shooting and that with 20fps and AF ... and it works great! If you need flash, that´s right you have use the mechanical shutter like the other cameras do do you really need flash on the catwalk?) but the AF works well and I assume not worse like other cameras. Yes i found more evidence that the AF works just the same in mechanical mode, though if you shoot at 5 FPS in mechanical mode - it just freezes for a moment for each shot which causes the EVF to seem be laggy. The photographer has used rear flash for added subject separation for the last few years, I didn't want to step backwards on quality - it's a school fashion shoot, so not typical professional setup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereophonie Posted February 21, 2018 Share #27 Posted February 21, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am using the SL with the two zoom lenses as well as with M lenses, having sold my Sony A7Rii gear in exchange. Sometimes also with the great Nikon 105mm manual focus. While I absolutely love the IQ of the camera and the handling of the body is second to none in my opinion, I see also major let downs in my SL after using the camera for two years now.The first thing which really annoys me is the severe weakness of the continuous AF. In my view, it is more or less useless. I often take pictures of horses (and their riders) in dim light, and the only thing which really works for me is zone focusing. That is not what I had bought an AF camera for, I can do that easily with my M. The focus will move back and forth on the SL, loosing focus point so quickly. Yes, 11 pics/sec is fast. But the AF hit rate out of those 11 pictures... dear me!Which leads me to the second let down - at least in comparison to the A7Rii which I had sold two years ago: the high ISO of the camera is not up to modern standard of sensor technology. Yes, it is way better than my M-P 240, but it is way behind modern BSI sensors. That goes for DR and high ISO. And if low light and the need of AF for moving objects come together: the SL is just not very good, sorry. While there are so many things to love in the SL, these two issues are right now pushing me to think about stepping out of the SL system and move back to Sony with the A9. The inability of Leica to produce a smaller line of lenses - or to produce lenses at all! - adds to that. Where is the promised wide-angle zoom? Where is a teleconverter for the 90-280? Where is a proper flash-support? The list goes on...I am right now contemplating of stepping out of the SL system, using A9 as a fast, low-light capable AF camera for sports or party/wedding photography while keeping my beloved M for the Leica touch. What could stop me from doing that? The short-term announcement of an SL2 with a modern sensor (for me: 24 MP is perfectly fine, I am looking for DR and low-light capability) and a proper AF which is not only fast for standing objects, but which should definitely become able to track moving objects! Should not be contrast-only. I know that stepping out of the SL-system will burn a lot of money, but right now I am not willing to further invest in the system as I am not seeing an indication that there will be a solution for my issues. Yes, I still love my SL. But I cannot afford a third system for sports or evenings with moving objects. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 21, 2018 Share #28 Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) The first thing which really annoys me is the severe weakness of the continuous AF. In my view, it is more or less useless. I often take pictures of horses (and their riders) in dim light, and the only thing which really works for me is zone focusing. That is not what I had bought an AF camera for, I can do that easily with my M. The focus will move back and forth on the SL, loosing focus point so quickly. Yes, 11 pics/sec is fast. But the AF hit rate out of those 11 pictures... dear me! Which leads me to the second let down - at least in comparison to the A7Rii which I had sold two years ago: the high ISO of the camera is not up to modern standard of sensor technology. Yes, it is way better than my M-P 240, but it is way behind modern BSI sensors. That goes for DR and high ISO. And if low light and the need of AF for moving objects come together: the SL is just not very good, sorry. ....... well .... the classic dilemma of what is an acceptable compromise as no single camera body seems to be everything that everyone wants in a way that everyone likes. completely swapping systems may just present you with a different set of annoyances instead ......... I don't think Leica will come up with A9 type performance in the SL anytime soon (although the SL itself was a surprise when it appeared) ........ I doubt that sports/moving subject/low light performance is high on Leicas list of priorities..... Edited February 21, 2018 by thighslapper 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lx1713 Posted February 21, 2018 Share #29 Posted February 21, 2018 Dan, did you set auto review to "OFF"? Gordon gave me this tip to reduce EVF lag. Not sure if it will help. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eprom Posted February 21, 2018 Share #30 Posted February 21, 2018 There is always a special tool for every task - ask your plumber - the SL is the best when you need top notch IQ and there is the A9 when you need super fast AF for moving objects. It is like it is. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancook Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share #31 Posted February 21, 2018 Dan, did you set auto review to "OFF"? Gordon gave me this tip to reduce EVF lag. Not sure if it will help. Auto-review is off, thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted February 21, 2018 Share #32 Posted February 21, 2018 Dan, What flash are you using for the fashion walks? Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancook Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share #33 Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) Dan, What flash are you using for the fashion walks? Gordon Previous photographer used a couple of speed lights, but since I have some godox ad600 equivalents (pixapro) I thought I might as well use those. Here's a tiny example of a shot - where there's rear flash, and because at this stage of the event there was smoke it lit that up. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Hmm starting to wonder about sync speed now... Edited February 21, 2018 by dancook Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Hmm starting to wonder about sync speed now... ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/281792-sony-a9-making-me-rethink-leica-setup-any-a9-owners/?do=findComment&comment=3466352'>More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted February 22, 2018 Share #34 Posted February 22, 2018 If you're using a cross light set up with the AD600's upping the sync speed and going back to first curtain sysnc might help. If it were me I'd probably be shooting this stuff in single shot and not continuous. Either that or have AF away from the shutter (back button focus). Also the smoke won't help a CDAF system. I'd be focusing on their legs if using either of the zooms to help the CDAF system along. Faces don't work as well with CDAF systems. Personally I'd be: 1/200th. F4. Set the ISO so you're half a stop under and lock it off. Back button CAF. Front curtain sync. Focus on the legs and mash the shutter. Gordon 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted February 23, 2018 Share #35 Posted February 23, 2018 If you're using a cross light set up with the AD600's upping the sync speed and going back to first curtain sysnc might help. If it were me I'd probably be shooting this stuff in single shot and not continuous. Either that or have AF away from the shutter (back button focus). Also the smoke won't help a CDAF system. I'd be focusing on their legs if using either of the zooms to help the CDAF system along. Faces don't work as well with CDAF systems. Personally I'd be: 1/200th. F4. Set the ISO so you're half a stop under and lock it off. Back button CAF. Front curtain sync. Focus on the legs and mash the shutter. Gordon Hi Gordon, Wouldn’ 2nd curtain sync give the pics a more natural look of movement in the right direction since the blur will be before instead of after the freeze? But then again with 1/200 sec shutter speed for a 3km/hr catwalk speed will likely freeze every motion I suppose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted February 23, 2018 Share #36 Posted February 23, 2018 Exactly. At 1/200th. I use first curtain. When I drag the shutter I prefer 2nd curtain. Assuming Leica's implementation of flash is rudimentary (and I have no evidence that it's better than rudimentary) I'd rather not have to worry whether the firmware has issues calculating the fire point for fast duration 2nd curtain. Lord knows they still have significant flaws in the firmware when it comes to flash implementation. And we're dealing with wireless third party guns as well. Who knows what delays there are, especially if you're expecting accurate 2nd curtain firing? Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relms Posted February 23, 2018 Share #37 Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) If I had never owned a Leica camera perhaps I could be content with Sony, but I do own Leica cameras - several of them, and I have owned Sony's a7, a7II, a7RII, and now the a9. It is interesting to note that the Leica images in my Lightroom library outnumber the Sony images by a factor of 4:1. There is a reason for that, and it goes beyond mere functionality. Edited February 23, 2018 by relms 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancook Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share #38 Posted February 23, 2018 If you're using a cross light set up with the AD600's upping the sync speed and going back to first curtain sysnc might help. If it were me I'd probably be shooting this stuff in single shot and not continuous. Either that or have AF away from the shutter (back button focus). Also the smoke won't help a CDAF system. I'd be focusing on their legs if using either of the zooms to help the CDAF system along. Faces don't work as well with CDAF systems. Personally I'd be: 1/200th. F4. Set the ISO so you're half a stop under and lock it off. Back button CAF. Front curtain sync. Focus on the legs and mash the shutter. Gordon Thanks, I hope 1/200th is enough to freeze the action, can't go home with a bunch of slightly blurry images - I will have to test it out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lx1713 Posted February 24, 2018 Share #39 Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) Your job is right at the edge of what I'm comfortable with the SL I agree with the 1/200 and cross lighting. If I might suggest, underexpose the ambient light even more, perhaps 1-1.5 stops. Flash exposure, use f5.6 or 6.3 instead and perhaps push in post. It may not deliver an aesthetic you like but perhaps more keepers? Alternatively, set SL: Drive to JPG only, Continuous H, 1/360s, APSC mode, AF-S to shoot burst of 3-4 frames. The black bar will not appear on APSC mode. Set flashes to minimum power for burst shots. I'm using profoto B2 which I tested at the above settings and it's okay but I don't know whether it will endure for an entire 15 -30 minutes of sustained burst flashes. My godox 360 is too slow in recycling so I didn't give it a try. Edited February 24, 2018 by lx1713 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancook Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share #40 Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) Your job is right at the edge of what I'm comfortable with the SL I agree with the 1/200 and cross lighting. If I might suggest, underexpose the ambient light even more, perhaps 1-1.5 stops. Flash exposure, use f5.6 or 6.3 instead and perhaps push in post. It may not deliver an aesthetic you like but perhaps more keepers? Alternatively, set SL: Drive to JPG only, Continuous H, 1/360s, APSC mode, AF-S to shoot burst of 3-4 frames. The black bar will not appear on APSC mode. Set flashes to minimum power for burst shots. I'm using profoto B2 which I tested at the above settings and it's okay but I don't know whether it will endure for an entire 15 -30 minutes of sustained burst flashes. My godox 360 is too slow in recycling so I didn't give it a try. In between the 'fashion walks' there is a dance routine under coloured lighting. I just had a look at some of my shots from this year and I can see that faces are burned more in the jpgs and retain more definition in the RAWs - that was with the M10 it's all non stop action for 2 hours Edited February 24, 2018 by dancook 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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