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Sony A9 making me rethink Leica Setup - any A9 owners?


dancook

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The first thing which really annoys me is the severe weakness of the continuous AF. In my view, it is more or less useless. I often take pictures of horses (and their riders) in dim light, and the only thing which really works for me is zone focusing. That is not what I had bought an AF camera for, I can do that easily with my M. The focus will move back and forth on the SL, loosing focus point so quickly. Yes, 11 pics/sec is fast. But the AF hit rate out of those 11 pictures... dear me!

 

Which leads me to the second let down - at least in comparison to the A7Rii which I had sold two years ago: the high ISO of the camera is not up to modern standard of sensor technology. Yes, it is way better than my M-P 240, but it is way behind modern BSI sensors. That goes for DR and high ISO. And if low light and the need of AF for moving objects come together: the SL is just not very good, sorry. 

 

 

Given your stated requirements, your best bet is a 1D X Mark II, a 5D Mark IV, or Nikon D5. The A9 won't offer a huge improvement in low-light AF tracking compared the the SL (20%, not 100%).

 

The only company with the technology for continuous AF tracking in a mirrorless camera is Canon. Unfortunately for you, they only offer that tech in Cinema cameras, and in APS-C point-and-shoot cameras. Rumours are circulating about a "professional mirrorless Canon," but who knows if/when that will happen? The SL2 may be out by then.

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Given your stated requirements, your best bet is a 1D X Mark II, a 5D Mark IV, or Nikon D5. The A9 won't offer a huge improvement in low-light AF tracking compared the the SL (20%, not 100%).

 

The only company with the technology for continuous AF tracking in a mirrorless camera is Canon. Unfortunately for you, they only offer that tech in Cinema cameras, and in APS-C point-and-shoot cameras. Rumours are circulating about a "professional mirrorless Canon," but who knows if/when that will happen? The SL2 may be out by then.

 

Have you ever tested an A9 to say that?

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Steve,

 

Coming from the video world, Canon is the only company that offers usable on-sensor AF tracking. The A9, much like the SL, offers speedy initial focus, but it can't track like the Canons can.

 

I haven't done an extensive test of the A9, but I have tried it in a shop. I find it's not a huge step past the SL, just slightly newer technology, and I'm not the type to switch cameras every time technology advances by a small amount. The SL is still ahead (to me) in terms of ergonomics, interface, lens compatibility, and EVF; qualities that I value more than AF speed and five-figure ISO ratings.

 

My main point is that the only way to get a big AF tracking improvement, compared to the SL, is with the Canon/Nikon pro SLRs.

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I suggest you to test it further, Bernard, because there is really a big leap between the previous-gen A7s and the A9 in terms of AF tracking.

I don't know very well the SL autofocus (I use it just with my M and R lenses), but from what I've seen when i've tried 24-90 and 90-280 in the shop, the SL, while fast in initial focus acquisition, it is nowhere near to the A9 in keeping focus with moving subjects or in low light conditions.

 

If that's a reason to switch or not it depends by personal needs, many people simply just don't need a truly hyper-fast AF and, as you said, there are many other things/features as important or more important than AF tracking in a camera.

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In between the 'fashion walks' there is a dance routine under coloured lighting.

 

I just had a look at some of my shots from this year and I can see that faces are burned more in the jpgs and retain more definition in the RAWs - that was with the M10 

 

it's all non stop action for 2 hours :)

 

2 hours is very tough on the flash but profoto ac powered D2 might do the trick. Unfortunately you may have to share your power with the event setup. 

 

I just shot an event with a few dances with coloured lighting. Have to say Canon does it better than the SL even a 1DIII but my keepers are a reasonable 85-90%. I cheated a little, I went close. I shot at 75mm f 4 at af-s. ISO 3200 1/250. But as the dances had relatively slow variations in distance it wasn't a big challenge.

 

I'd say AF-C is pretty useless for me at the moment.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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After tonight, I'm thinking its my pride and image quality which keeps me from selling all my leica gear for more practical equipment.

 

The client won't see the difference between an a9 and sl, but I will get more dynamic photos.

 

This post is proof that I'm ready to swallow my pride. Strongly considering selling all leica equipment. M10, SL and Q.

 

If I want something with a bit more image quality perhaps the x1d alongside a pair of A9 for work. It's a sad day doe this train of thought..

Edited by dancook
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I can’t really see IQ separating camera equipment anymore. Other than high resolution for massive prints I don’t see any real differences in camera systems outside of lenses.

 

It’s the haptics, ergonomics, UI, build quality, available lenses, and specialty features (AF, intervalometer, long exposure capability, focus stacking for macro and landscape, etc) that dictates my decisions.

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After tonight, I'm thinking its my pride and image quality which keeps me from selling all my leica gear for more practical equipment.

 

The client won't see the difference between an a9 and sl, but I will get more dynamic photos.

 

This post is proof that I'm ready to swallow my pride. Strongly considering selling all leica equipment. M10, SL and Q.

 

If I want something with a bit more image quality perhaps the x1d alongside a pair of A9 for work. It's a sad day doe this train of thought..

 

Really???

 

The Leica glass is so good... hang in there with us.

 

The next version of the SL may offer what you need in terms of AF speed. Maybe grab an A9 for work if you need fast AF now, but don't jump off the Leica bandwagon yet.

 

And the Q... oh man. Don't get me started. You can't dump that :)

 

Relax... step away from the computer :) :)

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After tonight, I'm thinking its my pride and image quality which keeps me from selling all my leica gear for more practical equipment.

 

The client won't see the difference between an a9 and sl, but I will get more dynamic photos.

 

This post is proof that I'm ready to swallow my pride. Strongly considering selling all leica equipment. M10, SL and Q.

 

If I want something with a bit more image quality perhaps the x1d alongside a pair of A9 for work. It's a sad day doe this train of thought..

 

 

 

Neither clients nor your markets shaped your decision. That changes all the time. Getting more dynamic imagery is the key to what inspired your decision making.

 

So what happens when Leica does catch up in speed of processing and AF performance? What then?

 

Perhaps you might consider what lenses or what images you will not be able to achieve with a Sony, that an SL can do better? What's Sony's long term  advantage?

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All my work will be people shooting, but instead of just weddings - I'll be shooting for a school, including teenage sports days and fashion walks - both requiring more consistency in AF and buffer size than the SL can offer.

 

I'd hate to own an additional camera just use only for these events, and besides using it for all events will also allow me to become very familiar with it.

 

I considered the D5 and 1DXII but the shutter noise will not be welcomed in some of the events. The A9 edge AF and face detection performance is just so convincing..

Quiet mode in the 5DIII is pretty impressive.  It also has silent.  Not tried the 5D4, but I'm sure it's good.

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After tonight, I'm thinking its my pride and image quality which keeps me from selling all my leica gear for more practical equipment.

 

The client won't see the difference between an a9 and sl, but I will get more dynamic photos.

 

This post is proof that I'm ready to swallow my pride. Strongly considering selling all leica equipment. M10, SL and Q.

 

If I want something with a bit more image quality perhaps the x1d alongside a pair of A9 for work. It's a sad day doe this train of thought..

 

Why selling everything at once? Begin with getting rid of one piece of the Leica set and buy the A9 (or whatever)... try to use them both and let's see which suits you best...

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Quiet mode in the 5DIII is pretty impressive.  It also has silent.  Not tried the 5D4, but I'm sure it's good.

 

 

Have the 5D4. It's quiet enough for plays (passed the requirements of my client anyway, who may be more tolerant than most) and it's AF is fast and accurate. Flash is great.

 

The SL is more versatile ultimately for what I want to do these days so the 5D4 is on an extended holiday. I want to master the mirrorless so I'm willing to trade off capturing the best dynamic moments for a more even photography workflow.

 

For more dynamic photos, under certain conditions, the DSLR is certainly unbeatable compared to my SL. Flash with my Canons is also much smoother and predictable experience compared with the SL. That's where Dan's struggle may be greatest. It's a very real problem but I have the freedom to avoid the dilemma he's facing but Steve is right I think it's better to use both and suffer a little to see which suits best.

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Neither clients nor your markets shaped your decision. That changes all the time. Getting more dynamic imagery is the key to what inspired your decision making.

 

So what happens when Leica does catch up in speed of processing and AF performance? What then?

 

Perhaps you might consider what lenses or what images you will not be able to achieve with a Sony, that an SL can do better? What's Sony's long term  advantage?

 

Well the dynamic imagery has been in my mind for a while, I told myself that instead - I would concentrate on compositions and quality, however it nagged me that if suddenly a child suddenly and gleefully ran towards me I would be unlikely to get the shot. I did have the 50mm 1.4 SL on the camera at the time which made it doubly worse ;) or triply worse when someone would ask "Did you get that?" .. I'll just smile and pretend the camera didn't just hunt/or just fail to lock the entire time..

 

with my new work,

I would need to further invest in a second SL to make the most out of a two zoom setup, it won't be ideal changing lenses all the time especially in dark conditions during fast moving performances.

I already know that there AF and buffer limitations of the SL mean there are some jobs I just cannot do with any certainty, I would have no room for error and neither would the SL at gaining focus time and time again.

 

So I will be ordering two Sony A9s with zooms and possibly 2/3 primes, and I will not be in a rush to sell any of my Leica gear, if indeed I do at all.

 

I need to do the work now, if it's not the A9 it's a 1dx or d5 - but the silent shutter and eye detection is just so beneficial to me, I cannot wait for the SL2.

Edited by dancook
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For what it's worth, a client is tolerant when your delivery is generally reliable and excellent. Just because I miss the best moments doesn't mean I miss everything. In an editorial, I only need to deliver one great shot out of 200 shots. An event, maybe 20 -30 great shots out of 800 shots. At the end, the client will not remember that you missed this or that unless it's critical to his pay check. Have to pay attention to those  :D

 

We do bash ourselves when we miss out or if the equipment doesn't perform comparatively well with another. It does indicate that we appreciate and want excellence whatever the circumstances or limits are. Hey, it's a nice place to be, with so much choices in equipment.

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Well the dynamic imagery has been in my mind for a while, I told myself that instead - I would concentrate on compositions and quality, however it nagged me that if suddenly a child suddenly and gleefully ran towards me I would be unlikely to get the shot. I did have the 50mm 1.4 SL on the camera at the time which made it doubly worse ;) or triply worse when someone would ask "Did you get that?" .. I'll just smile and pretend the camera didn't just hunt/or just fail to lock the entire time..

 

with my new work,

I would need to further invest in a second SL to make the most out of a two zoom setup, it won't be ideal changing lenses all the time especially in dark conditions during fast moving performances.

I already know that there AF and buffer limitations of the SL mean there are some jobs I just cannot do with any certainty, I would have no room for error and neither would the SL at gaining focus time and time again.

 

So I will be ordering two Sony A9s with zooms and possibly 2/3 primes, and I will not be in a rush to sell any of my Leica gear, if indeed I do at all.

 

I need to do the work now, if it's not the A9 it's a 1dx or d5 - but the silent shutter and eye detection is just so beneficial to me, I cannot wait for the SL2.

It's well reasoned out and I think that's a right strategy. I would pick Canon simply because I'm already invested in Canon. I've not bought everything I want from the SL system because I'm eyeing my retirement as the primary consideration in all my musings.

 

Surprisingly, by limiting my purchases, I learned a lot about me. It's interesting how it sharpened my edge. Over a matter of 5-7 months, I suddenly developed a quiet passion for video. I'm not good but I'm enjoying it which is more important :p .

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There's an actual requirement to photograph multiple portraits of every model walking towards the camera on a catwalk during a school fashion show event.

 

The previous photographer used a 1dx for this.

 

I know what you mean otherwise.

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