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Standard embedded profile for CL on LR - Colour rendition very "Postcard-ish"


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I find the rendition of CL DNG images using the standard embedded profile on Lightroom for the CL rather garish and more suitable for a picture postcard. I am using a 2016 (Touchbar) 15" Macbook Pro with a calibrated screen. This is particularly the case if using a polarising filter. They are not quite so bright after conversion to JPEG's but still not quite to my taste. Capture One is somewhat better using the DNG file neutral profile but if for example I use the SL profile, it goes garish again (Phase One in their usual fashion have no CL profile at present for C1 V10 - I don't know about V.11 as I have not bought it). 

 

Hopefully this is something Leica might improve on a firmware update. 

 

See example below taken in Speightstown pier and fishmarket in Barbados, three weeks ago, I think probably with polarising filter (Hoya Fusion MC 52mm Circular Pola filter). 

 

Wilson

 

 

 

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Not sure why anyone would use the Leica Embedded profile in LR anyway (if that's the one you mean) as it is designed for JPG conversion. 

 

The Adobe Standard one provided is made specifically by Adobe to render colours as accurately as they can from the DNG info from the camera. Of course Adobe have their own view on what is 'right' .... but from my past experience they are generally in the right ball park for most general images. 

 

Also in the latest incarnation of LR the AUTO function in Tone works well as a starting point for adjustments. 

 

With CL images I need to make much fewer adjustments than most previous Leica cameras .....

 

Of course ..... colour is entirely in the eye of the beholder and some do like the garish postcard look ...... :unsure: 

 

.... and then there is the thorny argument over what constitutes 'appropriate' processing ... what is reasonable and what overlaps into the field of creative art and all that baloney. 

 

Looking at images on the forum, frequent posters seem to have particular trademarks in their processing that runs through all their photos .... for better or worse ....

Edited by thighslapper
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I find the Adobe one way off, the embedded is better, but far from perfect. I am comparing to a profile I made using diffuse winter light (easy to find presently ;) )

Creating a profile using a Colorchecker Passport is fairly accurate.

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Not sure why anyone would use the Leica Embedded profile in LR anyway (if that's the one you mean) as it is designed for JPG conversion. 

 

The Adobe Standard one provided is made specifically by Adobe to render colours as accurately as they can from the DNG info from the camera. Of course Adobe have their own view on what is 'right' .... but from my past experience they are generally in the right ball park for most general images. 

 

Also in the latest incarnation of LR the AUTO function in Tone works well as a starting point for adjustments. 

 

With CL images I need to make much fewer adjustments than most previous Leica cameras .....

 

Of course ..... colour is entirely in the eye of the beholder and some do like the garish postcard look ...... :unsure:

 

.... and then there is the thorny argument over what constitutes 'appropriate' processing ... what is reasonable and what overlaps into the field of creative art and all that baloney. 

 

Looking at images on the forum, frequent posters seem to have particular trademarks in their processing that runs through all their photos .... for better or worse ....

 

There is no other profile offered in LR (CC 2015.13) for me, other than "embedded" in the pull down menu in Camera Calibration, together with 2012 (current) process. Yes of course I can get it a lot better by playing around with settings for both global and individual colour settings but I had hoped that the standard profile might be nearer what is generally acceptable. I actually prefer the out of camera JPEG's to what LR makes before tweaking. Auto on Tone produces hopelessly over-exposed/pale images for me.  I would admit I am a very reluctant user of LR, having been a C1 user for the last 14+ years (since Digilux 1) but I am so annoyed by their adamant refusal to incorporate a de-haze tool and desperately slow release of Leica camera profiles, that I am considering dumping them. 

 

Wilson

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I find the Adobe one way off, the embedded is better, but far from perfect. I am comparing to a profile I made using diffuse winter light (easy to find presently ;) )

Creating a profile using a Colorchecker Passport is fairly accurate.

Jaap, 

 

When I get my mended CL back from Wetzlar, I will follow your example and make some DCP profiles using Color Checker Passport, like I did for the SL and M240. 

 

Wilson

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whats does the image look like when you run this ?

 

 

exiftool -b -JpgFromRaw filename.dng>full_preview.jpg

 

 

 

I find the rendition of CL DNG images using the standard embedded profile on Lightroom for the CL rather garish and more suitable for a picture postcard. I am using a 2016 (Touchbar) 15" Macbook Pro with a calibrated screen. This is particularly the case if using a polarising filter. They are not quite so bright after conversion to JPEG's but still not quite to my taste. Capture One is somewhat better using the DNG file neutral profile but if for example I use the SL profile, it goes garish again (Phase One in their usual fashion have no CL profile at present for C1 V10 - I don't know about V.11 as I have not bought it). 

 

Hopefully this is something Leica might improve on a firmware update. 

 

See example below taken in Speightstown pier and fishmarket in Barbados, three weeks ago, I think probably with polarising filter (Hoya Fusion MC 52mm Circular Pola filter). 

 

Wilson

Edited by frame-it
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I think I was using the wrong version of LR. It is a bit confusing having so many different versions on my computers. I have changed from LR 2015.13 to LR Classic CC V7.1 with Camera RAW 10.1. If I use the Adobe Standard profile, which in this version is available, that is a lot better than the embedded profile. As I am remotely accessing my Mac Mini, on which all my images are saved on its 2TB SSD, via Jump Desktop, I am reluctant to run any Terminal commands (exiftool etc). They can have unexpected effects when run remotely. Interestingly, I note that a profile for the Leica CL is not shown in LR Classic CC App/contents/resources/Camera profiles/Adobe Standard, unlike most of the other Leica Profiles, which are. This seems odd as I am running ACR 10.1, which should definitely include the CL. 

 

Wilson

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I find the Adobe one way off, the embedded is better, but far from perfect. I am comparing to a profile I made using diffuse winter light (easy to find presently ;) )

Creating a profile using a Colorchecker Passport is fairly accurate.

Is there somewhere we can find a step by step guide to creating a profile in LR with the Passport Colorchecker? Thanks
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Shoot an image of the passport in neutral light. (or any light you want to make a profile by) It does not need to fill the frame, but it must be more or less sharp and properly exposed.

Insert the SD card into the reader and open the DCIM folder

Start the Colorchecker app

Drag the DNG of the passport onto the window of the app; It will automatically crop and select the card

Hit the "create profile" button

Start Lightroom

 

Done.

 

Once profiled I am very happy with the colours out of the CL. Viewed on my new Eizo CG  Coloredge they take me back to Kodachrome. :) But a Mac Retina screen does not do them justice, it pulls them over the top for my taste.

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Shoot an image of the passport in neutral light. (or any light you want to make a profile by) It does not need to fill the frame, but it must be more or less sharp and properly exposed.

Insert the SD card into the reader and open the DCIM folder

Start the Colorchecker app

Drag the DNG of the passport onto the window of the app; It will automatically crop and select the card

Hit the "create profile" button

Start Lightroom

 

Done.

 

Once profiled I am very happy with the colours out of the CL. Viewed on my new Eizo CG Coloredge they take me back to Kodachrome. :) But a Mac Retina screen does not do them justice, it pulls them over the top for my taste.

thanks I’ll give it a try!!
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you could make your own profile and place it in

Macintosh HD\Library\ColorSync\Profiles

then it will show up in the display profiles

 

My rMBP display is already calibrated using a Spyder 4 Pro, so correct for everything other than CL DNG's and Lightroom, so I think best to get those corrected and leave the display as it is. I am sure a number of  Color Checker DCF profiles for winter light, flash, summer light etc is the way to go. I wish Capture One was as easy to make your own profiles but as it uses .ICC profiles, which are much more difficult to make against .DCF, which are very easy, that is not going to happen. 

 

Wilson

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Does LR Classic CC then use the Leica TL2 profile for CL images, given that it is the same or a very similar sensor to the CL? The TL2 profile is dated 13 Dec 2017, so must be the version that arrived with ACR 10.1. Interestingly, this is in library/application support/adobe/camera raw/camera profiles/Adobe standard on my root directory rather than the user directory. I am not sure that makes any difference, as it is duplicated in the contents/resources/camera profiles/Adobe standard inside the Lightroom Classic CC application package. 

 

Wilson

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My rMBP display is already calibrated using a Spyder 4 Pro, [...]

Same here using the i1Display Pro, it helps a lot, but it still looks a bit garish compared to the Eizo. I think that technology differences cannot be equalized 100% by profiling.

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I find I need a custom profile when a new camera comes out, but the Adobe Standard profile seems to evolve to become acceptable. Though I guess it could be my tastes evolve.

 

You become habituated to the look and eventually it appears 'normal' .......  :rolleyes:

 

Looking back at M240 photos from 2013 (when I produced my own profile as well) they all look rather too green/yellow me now .....

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shouldn't make any differnece

Interestingly, this is in library/application support/adobe/camera raw/camera profiles/Adobe standard on my root directory rather than the user directory. I am not sure that makes any difference, as it is duplicated in the contents/resources/camera profiles/Adobe standard inside the Lightroom Classic CC application package. 

 

Wilson

Edited by frame-it
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You become habituated to the look and eventually it appears 'normal' .......  :rolleyes:

 

Looking back at M240 photos from 2013 (when I produced my own profile as well) they all look rather too green/yellow me now .....

Possibly!

Even with a custom profile, I found landscape green too strong with the M240. I have a preset for landscapes that reduces yellow and green for landscapes, but not for other shots. This isn't confined to the M240 - I've seen a lot of complaints about 'acid grass green' on other forums about other cameras.

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