bpftc Posted February 7, 2018 Share #1 Posted February 7, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I was reading some Thorsten Overgaard and he mentioned he always shoots wide open. His theory is, why pay for a Noctilux if you are always stopped down to f/4. So it got me thinking, does everyone generally subscribe to this same idea? Shoot wide open whenever possible? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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ianman Posted February 7, 2018 Share #2 Posted February 7, 2018 I certainly don't! My amplifier is not on 11 all the time, I rarely drive at 150mph and don't eat all the chocolate biscuits just because they are there either. 18 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 7, 2018 Share #3 Posted February 7, 2018 I see: the economic imperative of the Noctilux! The idea that the cost of a lens determines the aperture that you should use looks like a joke to me. I would think it should be obvious that you would use the maximum aperture of a lens when you needed it, either to get a faster shutter speed, or to reduce the DOF. In other words, don't believe everything you read. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiggiGun Posted February 7, 2018 Share #4 Posted February 7, 2018 I would'nt answer to the personal approch of Mr. O even if I have my idea. In general, It is correct that the beauty & power of the Noctilux is max. at 0.95. But the right aperture depends on what you want to do! Exemple: Landscape images needs mostly a deeper field then portraits etc. Each situation has his own anwser! Otherwise, It makes no sens to spend the money for a Noctilux if you don't need 0.95 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted February 7, 2018 Share #5 Posted February 7, 2018 I certainly don't! My amplifier is not on 11 all the time, I rarely drive at 150mph and don't eat all the chocolate biscuits just because they are there either. Not sure I am with you on the chocolate biscuits .... :-) 8 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 7, 2018 Share #6 Posted February 7, 2018 Thorsten isn't suggesting everyone should shoot it wide open all the time. You only shoot wide open what you'd like to, what you think works. I shoot my Noctilux wide open 5% of the time or less. It's there for when I need it and for when it's right to use it - that is never all the time. I don't have to change lens for it, it's just there, because when it's right isn't really something I could plan for, it just happens. But if you are only shooting the kind of picture where it always works then that is a different thing. When you first get a Noctilux you're more likely to shoot wide open all the time though, it takes practice to know when and where to use it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsuitus Posted February 7, 2018 Share #7 Posted February 7, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... does everyone generally subscribe to this same idea? Shoot wide open whenever possible? No, I do not shoot wide open whenever possible. I only shoot wide open when I need a very shallow depth-of-field or I need the light-gathering necessary for a proper exposure. I do, however, try to buy lenses that are sharp when shot wide open. I see no sense in buying an f/1 lens that is soft at f/1. If I have to stop down to f/1.4 for a sharp image, I prefer buying an f/1.4 lens that is sharp at f/1.4. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelatino Posted February 7, 2018 Share #8 Posted February 7, 2018 T.Overgard refers very slightly to the number of OOF pictures he gets for the sublime one he presents. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie Posted February 7, 2018 Share #9 Posted February 7, 2018 I can sort of see his point, but take it from the other direction: if one always shoots at medium or small apertures then a Noctilux (or even Summilux) is not needed and a cheaper smaller, lighter lens is all one needs. Until recently a Summarit and Summarex (50mm and 8.5cm f/1.5 - not the new ones) were my large aperture lenses. My usual lens is my 50mm Sumicron from 1996, when I bought my M6 new. I have had a bit of a spree lately though and bought a, f/1 Noctilux and am very happy with it, but wouldn't take it unless I knew I would have a use for it Susie 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 7, 2018 Share #10 Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) Thorsten isn't suggesting everyone should shoot it wide open all the time. You only shoot wide open what you'd like to, what you think works...He shoots it wide open most all they time...https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/224113-new-updated-noctilux-king-of-the-night-article-on-overgaarddk/page-1?do=findComment&comment=2556110 And suggests that others should generally want to do the same... http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-50mm-Noctilux-M-ASPH-f-095.html Excerpt... “In the Noctilux, the FLE is perhaps less relevant than in a Leica 35mm Summilux-M ASPH f/1.4 FLE, because with the Noctilux you generally want to stay at f/0.95 (and wouldn't rally notice that the focus might change slightly if stopped down to f/5.6).” I’ve debated him on this point in older threads. Jeff Edited February 7, 2018 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 7, 2018 Share #11 Posted February 7, 2018 Not sure I am with you on the chocolate biscuits .... :-) The temptation! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 7, 2018 Share #12 Posted February 7, 2018 He shoots it wide open most all they time... https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/224113-new-updated-noctilux-king-of-the-night-article-on-overgaarddk/page-1?do=findComment&comment=2556110 And suggests that others should generally want to do the same... http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-50mm-Noctilux-M-ASPH-f-095.html Excerpt... “In the Noctilux, the FLE is perhaps less relevant than in a Leica 35mm Summilux-M ASPH f/1.4 FLE, because with the Noctilux you generally want to stay at f/0.95 (and wouldn't rally notice that the focus might change slightly if stopped down to f/5.6).” I’ve debated him on this point in older threads. Jeff Well without speaking to Thorsten I can't be sure of the context and I can't imagine he is saying that everyone should only shoot it wide open. If he shoots wide open all the time then it's relevant to him and anyone who's interested in reading it. There is a whole world out there telling you what to do and it really has little relevance to your own work. Really, who cares? Just shoot what you want and if it floats your boat then do it and if you want something more then try something else. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 7, 2018 Share #13 Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) Well without speaking to Thorsten I can't be sure of the context and I can't imagine he is saying that everyone should only shoot it wide open. If he shoots wide open all the time then it's relevant to him and anyone who's interested in reading it. There is a whole world out there telling you what to do and it really has little relevance to your own work. Really, who cares? Just shoot what you want and if it floats your boat then do it and if you want something more then try something else. His views have been presented in many contexts; no confusion. And yes, I’ve presented counterpoints on the forum, directly to him. He elaborates on his philosophy here... https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/264828-m-wedding-shoot/page-1?do=findComment&comment=3117662 And elsewhere states that it’s a waste not to use a fast lens this way. Jeff Edited February 7, 2018 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 7, 2018 Share #14 Posted February 7, 2018 His views have been presented in many contexts; no confusion. And yes, I’ve presented counterpoints on the forum, directly to him. He elaborates on his philosophy here... https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/264828-m-wedding-shoot/page-1?do=findComment&comment=3117662 And elsewhere states that it’s a waste not to use a fast lens this way. Jeff Yeah, but that's what he does. It's just his style and opinion. He's not saying everyone should do it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted February 7, 2018 Share #15 Posted February 7, 2018 The reason is primitive from technical and photography perspective. ASPH, APO or just plane optical formula, the optimum is always couple of stops down. The reason why HCB and other real PJ used fast lenses wide open was only one. To gather enough light for exposure. They and the rest of photographers knew it is not about bokeh. But even from bokeh perspective, if lens is good it will show specific bokeh at f4. Especially the Noctilux. Yet, for someone who needs to justify and brag about his expensive lenses, it might be valid reason. But he seems to contradict to himself: http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M9-digital-rangefinder-camera-page-19-Leica-M9-Confessions-Definitions-and-What-is-That-Details-Explained.html Far too many are taken not wide open. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 7, 2018 Share #16 Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) Paul, read my last sentence again, and the earlier link. ..or search other threads.... or PM him. I’ve already had this discussion with him. Of course he doesn’t force anyone to do anything, but his opinion is clear, and others are free to disagree. Jeff Edited February 7, 2018 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 7, 2018 Share #17 Posted February 7, 2018 The reason is primitive from technical and photography perspective. ASPH, APO or just plane optical formula, the optimum is always couple of stops down. The reason why HCB and other real PJ used fast lenses wide open was only one. To gather enough light for exposure. They and the rest of photographers knew it is not about bokeh. But even from bokeh perspective, if lens is good it will show specific bokeh at f4. Especially the Noctilux. Yet, for someone who needs to justify and brag about his expensive lenses, it might be valid reason. But he seems to contradict to himself: http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M9-digital-rangefinder-camera-page-19-Leica-M9-Confessions-Definitions-and-What-is-That-Details-Explained.html Far too many are taken not wide open. People need to focus on other things rather than "HCB" and old school guys all the time. HCB made wide open portraits when he didn't need to anyway. There are plenty of successful photographers still living shoot wide open portraits very successfully. The world doesn't exist in the past. Wide open portraiture and any other use is perfectly acceptable and relevant and is fine if you want to do it. Just care less about what others think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 7, 2018 Share #18 Posted February 7, 2018 Paul, read my last sentence again, and the earlier link. ..or search other threads.... or PM him. I’ve already had this discussion with him. Of course he doesn’t force anyone to do anything, but his opinion is clear, and others are free to disagree. Jeff No that's cool. I couldn't really care about reading or PM'ing. He just does what he does for the reasons he does them and that's cool. If you like it you like it and if you don't you do something else. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted February 7, 2018 Share #19 Posted February 7, 2018 The reason why [...] real PJ used fast lenses wide open was only one. To gather enough light for exposure. They and the rest of photographers knew it is not about bokeh. Sure. Shooting wide open isn't about bokeh either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McGarrett Posted February 7, 2018 Share #20 Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) "Always" is the key word here: if someone "always" shoot at f/8, doesn't need f/1 (he doesn't need f/2 either). But "always" means all the time, 100 shots out of 100... if you could use the lens wide open "often" or "sometimes" or even "rarely", and you can afford the Noctilux/Summilux/whatever, then why not? Iris is a tool in the photographer's hand: you should use the aperture needed for that shot in that moment, either f/0.7 or f/16, to achieve the result you have in mind... Edited February 7, 2018 by Steve McGarrett 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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