Rumored SF60 with SFC1 Commander

[sillbeers15]

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You're welcome Gordon.

I'm in the process of getting an answer from Nissin on the confirmation of MG10's compatibility with SF C1. In comparison, Leica's customer care is much better than Nissin. The Japan email contact does not respond, directs all enquiries to their marketing office in Hong Kong. Hong Kong office responded to my enquire but admitted they have insufficient information on the matter. I've requested for them to check with product development in Japan and revert back to me. The Singapore distributor I contacted was not even there is a new product MG10 when I asked about availability. But they were nice to check and let me know when can one be made available for me to test. I'll post once i get a good progress later.

 

I would do the same decision on lighting if I were to be holding mutiple camera and strobe systems. Unfortunate I'm a hobbist and I do not see mutiple camera system benefitting me as no other FF system captured my attention on image IQ except Leica. Medium format image IQ is better (but by not much these days comparing from what I get from Leica FF) but cumbersome in mobility and application for my application scope.

 

I would happily consider those 600W strobes if I have donkeys and assistants, but my desire is to go compact on lighting and most of my shooting opportunities come when I travel for holidays. If I were Nikon/Canon user, The Godox AD200 x3 would be my choice to carry around for outdoor HSS applications. It is precisily why I'm keen in Nissin MG10 as it is a 165W light vs the 200W AD200. If MG10 can support Leica cameras on TTL/HSS, I would bag three of them without thinking otherwise.

 

At the meantime, I'm happily playing around with two SF60s as OCF as my main and fill light plus using one manually controlled (1:1) using optical trigger as my rim light / back light. 

[wlaidlaw]

One would hope that as the MG10 is a new product, it would arrive with the new NAS firmware pre-installed.

 

Firms seem to be very tardy getting firmware out to customers, after they have been installing it in new models for some time. I have been waiting since April for new software for my Porsche Panamera Hybrid, to correct myriad small but irritating errors on the hugely over-complicated control system. For example the main digital speedometer does not change to KPH when you change the units from miles to kilometres in basic setup, so I am constantly having to do mental calculations for the speed I am doing while I am in France. This software has been in new models since April but Porsche have now told me they will probably not be issuing it for existing RHD cars until December. 

 

Wilson

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[FMB]

I think Leica should make an effort to arrive early to the current estate of the technology of the external products launched; it is true that we the Leica addicts are used to survive always one step late of the innovations for others updated and we couldn't care less of it because the quality of Leica products pays for the delate.

The Leica lenses and cameras follow this rule without obstacles but  in the case of flashes and other accessories rebranded and customized by Leica we can't forgive to be forced to buy products borne premature and privet of the usual capabilities that other makes enjoy. I think IMHO  that's the case of Flash SF 60 and  the SF C1. We only have the timid promise that in a future may be Leica or Nissin will do something for us. Meanwhile we have to put all the Leica flashes in the rubbish, even the SF 64 and SF 40 that not could be used  at least and with  means of Leica in one group Manual Mode.

 

I miss a Leica receiver.

 

Francisco.

[sillbeers15]

I think Leica should make an effort to arrive early to the current estate of the technology of the external products launched; it is true that we the Leica addicts are used to survive always one step late of the innovations for others updated and we couldn't care less of it because the quality of Leica products pays for the delate.

The Leica lenses and cameras follow this rule without obstacles but  in the case of flashes and other accessories rebranded and customized by Leica we can't forgive to be forced to buy products borne premature and privet of the usual capabilities that other makes enjoy. I think IMHO  that's the case of Flash SF 60 and  the SF C1. We only have the timid promise that in a future may be Leica or Nissin will do something for us. Meanwhile we have to put all the Leica flashes in the rubbish, even the SF 64 and SF 40 that not could be used  at least and with  means of Leica in one group Manual Mode.

 

I miss a Leica receiver.

 

Francisco.

 

For manual mode of off camera flash, there are many options. The Phoenix trigger and manual flash (with built in receiver) is a reliable as less expensive option that is compact.

[FMB]

Thank you for your advise but I wanted (would like to have had) Leica receivers  in order to could make a full and rational use of my flash SF 60 and the performances of the SF C1 recently bought, also not to have two triggers working simultaneously  in the camera.

 

As I have said in a preceding post I've in person checked the possibility of triggering at the same time with a flash in TTL mode on the shoe of  camera, more flashes in manual mode using other trigger plugged in the sync socket of the SL

 

Francisco.

[John Black]

Question regarding Leica's HSS mode / operation - if setting manual shutter speeds on the M-246 and firing faster than 1/180, neither the SF-40 or SF-60 will go into HSS mode if set the flash is set to "M" mode.  The flashes simple won't fire.  My conclusion here is that HSS is only available in a TTL mode.  Correct?

 

Maybe my memory is shot, but I would have sworn with the SF-58, I could put it in HSS mode, set the SF-58's output power, set the shutter speed on the camera to 1/200 and it worked.  This would have been M9 / M-240 days.  Am I wrong on this???  It's been a long time, so I could be remembering wrong.

 

If the only way to get HSS on the Leica SF-60 is via TTL mode, then they (Leica / Nissin) need to update their firmware on the flash & SF C1 to have a +/4 FEC range.  Heck, preferably +/-5 or +/-6.  Or better yet, just allow HSS in M mode.  

[sillbeers15]

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Question regarding Leica's HSS mode / operation - if setting manual shutter speeds on the M-246 and firing faster than 1/180, neither the SF-40 or SF-60 will go into HSS mode if set the flash is set to "M" mode. The flashes simple won't fire. My conclusion here is that HSS is only available in a TTL mode. Correct?

 

Maybe my memory is shot, but I would have sworn with the SF-58, I could put it in HSS mode, set the SF-58's output power, set the shutter speed on the camera to 1/200 and it worked. This would have been M9 / M-240 days. Am I wrong on this??? It's been a long time, so I could be remembering wrong.

 

If the only way to get HSS on the Leica SF-60 is via TTL mode, then they (Leica / Nissin) need to update their firmware on the flash & SF C1 to have a +/4 FEC range. Heck, preferably +/-5 or +/-6. Or better yet, just allow HSS in M mode.

No. I have shot in manual mode set on my SL and manual mode on my SF60s vis the SF C1 attached to my SL for multiple times.

 

However there was one time after my off camera setup, the SF60s refuse to go off when the commander was set to M, flipping into TTL and it worked. Later in operation, I could flip it back into M mode and it worked fine.

 

I’m guessing the TTL memory function it has might have to do with the function freeze I’ve encountered.

[John Black]

Frankly, now I'm just curious.  I'll raise the question with Leica support.

[wlaidlaw]

Frankly, now I'm just curious.  I'll raise the question with Leica support.

 

Based on my experience with the SL, the folks on the forum had to lead Leica and do the testing both on production and beta software for flash. Leica are not very interested in Flash and don't seem to grant it a high priority. Mode and behaviour errors are common. I suspect it stems from the days at Solms, where Metz-Mecablitz were next door neighbours. Leica seems to have ceded the responsibility for flash coupling to Metz, who made the SF20/24/26/58 and 64 flashes for Leica and the SCA 3502 modular flash system, which worked on the MZ40/45/54 and 76 flashes. 

 

Wilson

[Ken Abrahams]

Looking at the Commander unit from the side, into the battery compartment. Can anyone tell me which way the two aaa batteries polarities are supposed to be positioned?

 

The manual is a bit scarce of proper diagrams and there isn't any markings on the commander unit itself. 

 

Cheers

[wlaidlaw]

See diagram - have you got the full manual or just the quick start. The full manual is available as a download from Leica USA. 

 

Wilson

 

 

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[phongph]

Hi All!

Any update of SF 60, SF C1 and Nissin Flash?

Have a nice weekend!

Thanks!

Edited November 11, 2018 by phongph

[wlaidlaw]

24 minutes ago, phongph said:

Hi All!

Any update of SF 60, SF C1 and Nissin Flash?

Have a nice weekend!

Thanks!

As long as the Nissin Flashes are Air10S compatible and have had the software updated to the most current, they do work with the SF-C1 controller for most uses, TTL, EV+/-, etc (testing was done using an MG10 hammerhead flash). However HSS does not seem to be working properly although it indicates on the controller that it is. Hopefully with further updates to to the softwares of either the SF-C1 and the Flashes, this can be sorted. 

Wilson

[sillbeers15]

6 hours ago, phongph said:

Hi All!

Any update of SF 60, SF C1 and Nissin Flash?

Have a nice weekend!

Thanks!

The only Nissin NAS flash that is competable with Leica Commander SF C1 is MG10 loaded with the latest firmware MG10v5. It is explained in Nissin product literature that Nissin will update firmware with products via Micro SD card and make firmware available for download via their website. However the current products with Micro SD card slot are Air10s & MG10. Current range of other product such as i60a can likely take on new firmware to make it compatible with SF C1 but only Nissin can download new firmware as there are no Micro SD card slot on i60a product.

I have successfully gotten the 165Ws Nissin MG10 flash to work with both of my SF60s controlled by my SF C1 Commander.

You can check out my trial shots shown in the last page of post through link: 

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by sillbeers15

[lfriden]

On an SL, is the SL60 HSS working in Manual mode, with the flash off camera controlled by the SF C1?

I have not ben able to make it work. If it's supposed to work, how do you set it up?

[arvin]

On 11/12/2018 at 12:59 AM, sillbeers15 said:

The only Nissin NAS flash that is competable with Leica Commander SF C1 is MG10 loaded with the latest firmware MG10v5. It is explained in Nissin product literature that Nissin will update firmware with products via Micro SD card and make firmware available for download via their website. However the current products with Micro SD card slot are Air10s & MG10. Current range of other product such as i60a can likely take on new firmware to make it compatible with SF C1 but only Nissin can download new firmware as there are no Micro SD card slot on i60a product.

I have successfully gotten the 165Ws Nissin MG10 flash to work with both of my SF60s controlled by my SF C1 Commander.

 

 

Hi Sillbeers15, 

Based on the statement above, can I presume the following?
- Air10S & MG10 fully works on SL? (TTL/HSS and etc..)
- Leica Commander SF C1 can and is compatible with the MG10 with the latest firmware MG10v5? 
- Leica SF60 and MG10 in Master/Slave mode without the SF C1?

My apology if you had been asked and answered these questions many times.
Just need to confirm before I pull the trigger. Thanks a lot. 

[sillbeers15]

5 minutes ago, arvin said:

Hi Sillbeers15, 

Based on the statement above, can I presume the following?
- Air10S & MG10 fully works on SL? (TTL/HSS and etc..)
- Leica Commander SF C1 can and is compatible with the MG10 with the latest firmware MG10v5? 
- Leica SF60 and MG10 in Master/Slave mode without the SF C1?

My apology if you had been asked and answered these questions many times.
Just need to confirm before I pull the trigger. Thanks a lot. 

Hi Arvin,

Nissin does not offer a Leica compatible Air10s. All AIr10s are camera brand specific. The SF C1 function is slightly different from normal Air10s due to Leica flash protocol. 

Nissin MG10 is fully compatible with Leica SF C1 but Nissin does not offer a master controller concept from its flashes. It would be great that Nissin can produce a Leica version flash that can be hotshoe mounted on camera to control the other off camera flashes. No sure why Nissin does not offer such function as there are no technical barriers that I can see. The MG10 does not offer any display or flash control adjustment dials. Everything is controlled wirelessly.

Hope my reply helps.

[arvin]

Thanks sir.

[Cowz]

All I want is my SF C1 and SF 60 to be able to HSS ain my SL (or M10 for that matter)..... no point having a noct and not be able to use strobes 

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[sillbeers15]

21 hours ago, Cowz said:

All I want is my SF C1 and SF 60 to be able to HSS ain my SL (or M10 for that matter)..... no point having a noct and not be able to use strobes 

Yes. You get HSS in operation, I’ve get it working at 1/8000 sec with SL75 @ f2 ISO100 in TTL mode ( does not work in manual mode as I believe there is a firmware bug which I’ve feedback to Leica and they have acknowledged that it does not work indeed).