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50mm 2.8 Elmar-m


nitrox1

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Probably..as the slower lenses I've found...generally perform a stop or 2 down..better than the fast ones..but you would have to test...

But be aware..after using the Elmar..you may want to dump your Summicron..

Yes I would predict that too

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Probably..as the slower lenses I've found...generally perform a stop or 2 down..better than the fast ones..but you would have to test...

But be aware..after using the Elmar..you may want to dump your Summicron..

 

That's what ultimately happened to me. Of all the 50s I tried, from the Summicrons to the Summilux to the Zeiss to the Noktons, etc. etc. What did I keep? The Elmar-M. It's the jam!

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I do not know whether the Elmar-M had an effect on the sales of the Summicron.

 

Prices may give an idea: 

 

When the Elmar-M was first sold seperately in 1995 it was only offered in silver version for 1748 DM; the Summicron in 1995 was 1578 DM in black, and 1748 DM in silver.  

 

Then the Summicron slowly became more expensive - 1999: Elmar 1648 DM black /1848 DM silver;  Summicron 1698 DM black/1898 DM silver 

 

Two years later the price relation changed significantly: Elmar black 670 € (this was 1310, 41 DM) ; Summicron black 1125 € (2200,31 DM) in 2001. So the Elmar got less expensive - very rare for Leica products - , while the Summicron participated in the very steep price increase of all other Leica lenses and cameras. 

 

In the last year of the Elmar in 2007 it was 900€, the Summicron was 1450 € (both black). The 50mm Summarit was introduced one year later at 1000,-€.

 

Usually one does not increase prices sharply if something does not sell; usually one decreases prices if something is hard to sell. Though with Leica those economic laws aren't always right.

 

When I bought my first Leica lens the dealer praised the Elmar very much and wanted to sell it to me but I sneered at it. I wanted the Summilux. 18 years later I think the dealer was not wrong.

 

These price points would be good start for a re-introduction :)

I have a Japanese F4 Tessar, I like it.

I hope I could overcome my worries of a sloppy tube (had my m-Elmar 90 tightened).

- I have a liking for the older many bladed diafragms. But i like the small collapsed size - together with a slim m-body it will fit into a pocket. I am looking for one now for that reason (and aesthetics of course - of the image)

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Having been shooting my new Elmar on the M10 a bunch this week, with the M10’s excellent higher ISO, I may end up just keeping the Elmar on the m10 and leaving the summicron on my film mp. I’m really enjoying the look of the files of this Elmar. Thank you everyone for your participation in this thread. It has been very educational. Next up for me is the 28 f2.8

 

 

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  • 2 years later...

I must admit, the Elmar-M 2.8/50 is a pure joy to use. The short and effortless focus throw makes it a really comfortable and ergonomic lens.

Also, it looks great when mounted and its rendering is just beautiful.

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However, in daily usage it happened to me multiple times that I forgot to uncollapse it before mounting 😱 as well as to uncollapse before shooting.

Additionally I found it a little bit annoying to find the correct position of the barrel when uncollapsing.

If you need a always-ready-to-use-without-thinking lens, this might not be the one for you.

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37 minutes ago, raphael said:

I must admit, the Elmar-M 2.8/50 is a pure joy to use. The short and effortless focus throw makes it a really comfortable and ergonomic lens.

Also, it looks great when mounted and its rendering is just beautiful.

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However, in daily usage it happened to me multiple times that I forgot to uncollapse it before mounting 😱 as well as to uncollapse before shooting.

Additionally I found it a little bit annoying to find the correct position of the barrel when uncollapsing.

If you need a always-ready-to-use-without-thinking lens, this might not be the one for you.

Agreed! Some of the variations also had a focus-tab. which I find a help with the narrow focus ring. Overall I agree with Leica that the Summarit 2.5 50 made sense to replace the Elmar.

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Never seen focus tabs on the Elmar-M 50/2.8 so far. Only a focus knob on the M6J version. Great lens indeed. As for replacing it by a Summarit, it's like replacing a Tessar by a Planar. My Summarit remains more often at home i must say but i'm a Tessar/Elmar lover.

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55 minutes ago, ldhrads said:

Actually sold my chrome version of it last week.  It was sitting untouched for at least 2 years.  Time to go.  Great little lens, but I have trouble not using my 50 APO these days!

 

I find plenty of opportunity to use my Chrome version alternatively with APO-Summicron and other 50's.

Focus was getting a bit 'unsmooth' so just had it serviced and 6-bit coded by Will van Manen (well, Cathy actually did the work) and now beautifully smooth.Funny thing, but M10 recognises lens but M9 dosn't. Need to investigate.

Great little lens.

Edited by pedaes
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It's a great little lens.  I'm a bit of a 50mm hoarder, now I"m down to 5 lol.  I got the urge to sell my Zeiss wides, just got a WATE.  While poking around in the lens closet, I realized that the little 50 Elmar-M could use a new home with someone that would use it more frequently!

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 I bought my 50mm elmar-m f2.8 and last version f1 noctilux together, both new, on the basis that I as would only use the noctilux at maximum aperture there was no point in carrying it's dead weight  around all the time.

As things worked out,  I used the little elmar-m far more than I used the noctilux and when someone made me a ludicrous offer (in my favour)  for it, I was very happy to wave  goodbye to the noctilux and bank the money.

The 50mm elmar-m f2.8 is the kingpin of my modest selection of Leica cameras (1) and lenses (6).   I have no need for any other 50mm lens. 

The 50mm elmar-m and my MP are my fellow travellers.

 

Edited by Ouroboros
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17 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

 I have no need for any other 50mm lens. 

(than the Elmar-M 50). For me it's exactly the same. I am absolutely unconvinced that the APO Summicron 50 would do better at 2.8. The Elmar-M 50 is definitely better than the Summicron 50 iv or v, at 2.8 and up. 

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1 hour ago, otto.f said:

 

 

1 hour ago, otto.f said:

I am absolutely unconvinced that the APO Summicron 50 would do better at 2.8

Depends what you mean by better. I love the Elmar-M, but if you look at several performance measures, such as chromatic aberration and colour fringing the benefits of a APO lens are clear. It is also sharper corner to corner at f2.8. None of this is necessarily important in a given image, but if you want to be confident on all counts, mount the APO.

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58 minutes ago, pedaes said:

 

Depends what you mean by better. I love the Elmar-M, but if you look at several performance measures, such as chromatic aberration and colour fringing the benefits of a APO lens are clear. It is also sharper corner to corner at f2.8. None of this is necessarily important in a given image, but if you want to be confident on all counts, mount the APO.

I'd rather have an extended world tour than spend that sort of money on a lens for 35mm photography, regardless of how good the 50mm summicron apo is.

I've made my living for decades using Nikon, Zeiss, Mamiya, Bronica, Pentax and Fuji lenses that distort, have ca in bucket loads, lack edge to edge sharpness, back focus, front focus, produce nervous bokeh, focus shift any any other bollocks that forum dwellers torment themselves and the lives of others with. 

Not one of my clients has ever.....ever.....complained that I should have used a 'better' lens for the images in their albums and the prints hanging on their walls.

I am sure the 50mm summicron apo asph is a jolly nice lens.  The point is, this thread is about the 50mm elmar-m f2.8, which I happen to like very much for it's ergonomics, the images it is capable of creating and because it is beautifully made and contributes to the Leica M photography experience in a way that only collapsible elmars can do.

  

Edited by Ouroboros
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Love the Elmar-M on my film Leica and even on my Zeiss Ikon ZM camera ( Yes I admit I use that as well, in my defence I wear glasses and like the viewfinder and auto exposure, but enough of that). I can carry it collapsed in my suit pocket and its ready to hand. Usually with HP5 at 1600 ASA. I find the HP5 at 1600 holds shadows nicely. The Elmar-M is black and sharp. because I shoot SLR's the need to extend the lens assures that I remove the Lens Cap! I have a habit of forgetting with my other lenses.

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Not interested in edge to edge sharpness, on a 50 even less. I prefer the sharpness to walk away a bit towards the edges, that’s what attracted me to Leica lenses when I started with it,  among other things. The sheer endless possibility to dodge shadows in wet prints for instance, without getting a grey flary soup.

Edited by otto.f
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  • 7 months later...
On 2 mars 2020 at 4:37 PM, pedaes said:

I find plenty of opportunity to use my Chrome version alternatively with APO-Summicron and other 50's.

Focus was getting a bit 'unsmooth' so just had it serviced and 6-bit coded by Will van Manen (well, Cathy actually did the work) and now beautifully smooth.Funny thing, but M10 recognises lens but M9 dosn't. Need to investigate.

Great little lens.

Hello Pedaes,

This is interesting, so you have reasons to like both, the tiny relatively inexpensive and the best of the bests ever. Could you please detail, the opportunities which leads you to choose one or another ?

I have the Elmar-M and I confess I never succeed to get the stunning results I like so much made by others, perhaps because I am taking pictures in too dim light for its small 2.8. Anyway I keep confindent to do so... Chasing the Graal I am wondering about the Apo-Summicron since that like the Elmar-M it seems capable of "different" results, with unsurpassed details in blacks and in lights, and for color rendition. Could you please give also comparative details on theses 2 points for these 2 lens ?

I thank you all for this instructive "back to basics" thread.

D

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39 minutes ago, aires35iii said:

the Elmar-M it seems capable of "different" results

I tend to take the Elmar-M if the light is good and can use it at f5.6 and 8,  when it's at it's 'sharpest'. It has a nostalgic charm and is fun to use and just makes for a change. Looks nice on a chrome body (mine's chrome) and is a 'friendly' lens that people don't seem to find intrusive. All very subjective I am afraid!

This shot was taken at f5.6. (remember the posting resolution is quite low)

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The Elmar M is one of the greatest 50 of all time, there might be sharper ones, there might be faster ones, but for pleasant rendering it‘s king!

 

I got mine fitted with a 35 cron 4th‘s focus tab a few years ago, it is perfect now!

 

If you’re interested, the only lens comparison I did it my whole life as a professional photographer can be found here:

 

 

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