jaapv Posted February 6, 2018 Share #21 Posted February 6, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) It would be the same for me for any camera, any appliance in general. I cannot imagine myself testing out a vacuum cleaner in the shop, or a microwave. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 Hi jaapv, Take a look here M10 checklist before walking out of the shop. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Lonescapes Posted February 6, 2018 Share #22 Posted February 6, 2018 Just download the instruction manual, read it, and highlight every heading that regards a system which you are concerned might manifest a defect between the manufacturer's check and the time when you purchase it. Then use that as your checklist of things to test in-store. I think it's unlikely you'll find anything wrong, but it is true that most manufacturer QC, even if it's very good, happens well ahead of when the camera is actually placed in its box and shipped to the dealer, so you may only be going from 0.7% chance of an issue to 0.4%, let's say, but the difference won't be zero. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG14 Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share #23 Posted February 6, 2018 I don’t think you should get the M-10. There seems to be some deep seeded mistrust for the dealers. Like I said, it's not about mistrust. It's about saving future potential hassle. Not doing easy checks doesnt make sense. I have an Oly camera. And the customer service is great. After using it for a while, I noticed a small white dot (really speck) in the viewfinder. Didnt know what it was. Call the customer service and was told to bring it done, leave it for a few days for them to check/repair. Turned out there was an issue, either through manufacturing or assembly. Doesn't matter: they fixed it for free. No cost to me, but I had to spend time to bring it down to the service center, spent time picking it, etc. No monetary cost, they honoured the warranty, but it was a hassle. Now, lesson learnt, when I buy a camera, I am sure to look intently at the viewfinder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 6, 2018 Share #24 Posted February 6, 2018 I think you should speak to the dealer you’re intending to buy from. Explain your concerns and see what they can do for you. Maybe order a spare battery and ask them to fully charge it before you visit. You pay for the camera and then you can open it up, pop in the new fully charged battery and spend the next couple of hours shooting. Return to the shop and - as already agreed with them - check some frames on a monitor. If any faults are apparent they swap it for another from stock. Repeat process. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted February 6, 2018 Share #25 Posted February 6, 2018 Like I said, it's not about mistrust. It's about saving future potential hassle. Not doing easy checks doesnt make sense. I have an Oly camera. And the customer service is great. After using it for a while, I noticed a small white dot (really speck) in the viewfinder. Didnt know what it was. Call the customer service and was told to bring it done, leave it for a few days for them to check/repair. Turned out there was an issue, either through manufacturing or assembly. Doesn't matter: they fixed it for free. No cost to me, but I had to spend time to bring it down to the service center, spent time picking it, etc. No monetary cost, they honoured the warranty, but it was a hassle. Now, lesson learnt, when I buy a camera, I am sure to look intently at the viewfinder. Leica will fix defects for free as well. Mostly 2 to 3 times longer than all other brands. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark II Posted February 6, 2018 Share #26 Posted February 6, 2018 It would be the same for me for any camera, any appliance in general. I cannot imagine myself testing out a vacuum cleaner in the shop, or a microwave. I cannot imagine any domestic vacuum cleaner that costs close to the price of a small car and which in the event of trouble would require you to ship off the defective unit along with all cables and accessories for two months of investigation and repair, during which time you could neither clean your house nor justify a second identical purchase as a "backup" to cover the down time Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 6, 2018 Share #27 Posted February 6, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't think the price is very relevant for the discussion. For some (not me) the price of the camera will be 1% of the car they came in to buy it, for somebody else that vacuum cleaner may be more than half their monthly spending money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucerne Posted February 6, 2018 Share #28 Posted February 6, 2018 (edited) Like I said, it's not about mistrust. It's about saving future potential hassle. Not doing easy checks doesnt make sense. I have an Oly camera. And the customer service is great. After using it for a while, I noticed a small white dot (really speck) in the viewfinder. Didnt know what it was. Call the customer service and was told to bring it done, leave it for a few days for them to check/repair. Turned out there was an issue, either through manufacturing or assembly. Doesn't matter: they fixed it for free. No cost to me, but I had to spend time to bring it down to the service center, spent time picking it, etc. No monetary cost, they honoured the warranty, but it was a hassle. Now, lesson learnt, when I buy a camera, I am sure to look intently at the viewfinder. Be aware that Leica and it's main dealers manage a safe "return to shop or Wetzlar" scheme. Usually, they will issue you (by email) with a "return to xxxxx" label. You call the courier and your package is collected from home. There's no charge. The camera will be returned to you when repaired or you may get a replacement. You may never need to re-visit the store. I live 400 miles from the London Leica service dealer, so taking an item for repair is a challenge. I appreciate Leica's excellent arrangements. Edited February 6, 2018 by lucerne Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted February 6, 2018 Share #29 Posted February 6, 2018 Maybe because I've not bought a leica before, so have not experienced their customer service. TG is skeptical, and learning. All is good. Look, this guy probably packs his own parachute, too. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 6, 2018 Share #30 Posted February 6, 2018 TG is skeptical, and learning. All is good. Look, this guy probably packs his own parachute, too. And socks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark II Posted February 6, 2018 Share #31 Posted February 6, 2018 Be aware that Leica and it's main dealers manage a safe "return to shop or Wetzlar" scheme. Usually, they will issue you (by email) with a "return to xxxxx" label. You call the courier and your package is collected from home. There's no charge. The camera will be returned to you when repaired or you may get a replacement. You may never need to re-visit the store. I live 400 miles from the London Leica service dealer, so taking an item for repair is a challenge. I appreciate Leica's excellent arrangements. This is all true and fine, but after I bought a faulty-out-of-the-box lens last year, Leica wanted me to send my entire camera system for two months so that they could investigate (not withstanding that my other lenses were perfectly ok). While Leica's arrangements are very professional and proper, the waiting time is not - particularly since the lens was being bought for a specific project with a hard deadline for the start of shooting. Eventually I was able to arrange a replacement, but this was non-trivial given that my regular dealer is in another country. I think that it is perfectly reasonable to be cautious when purchasing from Leica given their under-resourced service system, particularly if you can not justify duplicate equipment in the event of a problem. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsuitus Posted February 6, 2018 Share #32 Posted February 6, 2018 When I went shopping for my first digital SLR and my first digital rangefinder I ... 1. Took my lenses, 2. Took a memory card, 3. Took a laptop computer, 4. Took a memory card reader. I took test shots in the camera store and transferred them to my laptop for analysis. For the used cameras, I was able to actually test the camera I was contemplating buying. For the new cameras, I was only able to test the store's demo camera. The only things I will do differently next time is to: 1. Take more than one memory card, 2. Take my hand-held exposure meter, 3. Take a flash unit if I plan on using flash with the camera, 4. Take fully charged batteries if the cameras I will be testing use the same batteries as the cameras I already own. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeamosau Posted February 6, 2018 Share #33 Posted February 6, 2018 The only question I would ask is what the dealers return policy is if there are any defects/problems out of the box. The dealer I purchased from said if there was anything wrong, just ship it back and a new one would be in the post the same day. Mike 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT0227 Posted February 6, 2018 Share #34 Posted February 6, 2018 I have full confidence in my local dealer, Leica Store SoHo. Never had an issue and have always been treated nicely; first class operation. Regardless of these facts, if I'm laying down $7k for anything, I'm going to make sure the thing works before accepting the goods. I mean you're there right??....so why not? I had my own memory card and lens , the store provided me with a charged battery to check out my M10. I quickly made some basic profile adjustments and took some snaps to make sure the basic functionality was working properly and confirm I was able to achieve proper exposure and focus (all while my battery was charging). Once all looked good after about 15min or so, I dropped the cash and started the real test when I walked out the door. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted February 8, 2018 Share #35 Posted February 8, 2018 Just slap a lens on or pair it with the lens you are buying, and check whether the rangefinder is out of sync or not. If it is, change the lens (ask for another of the same) and then test again, if it's still out, most likely it's the body, but if the second or third lens is bang on, then the first lens is out. It's not 100% accurate, but this is stuff you can check. I have learn the hard way with buying a new M246. For people who keep saying Leica M will have no problem, that is just plainly no true with any ownership of Leica digital product. But on the other hand, you get to enjoy Leica excellent service when you do encounter problem. Hahahah. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tofu_man Posted August 30, 2018 Share #36 Posted August 30, 2018 after finding out the hard way with a new M, I'd definitely put a lens on and check that the rangefinder patches line up Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG14 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share #37 Posted August 30, 2018 after finding out the hard way with a new M, I'd definitely put a lens on and check that the rangefinder patches line up What was the issue? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhicks Posted August 30, 2018 Share #38 Posted August 30, 2018 What was the issue? Likely that the frame lines were misaligned upon focus Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted August 30, 2018 Share #39 Posted August 30, 2018 As 250swb says, if buying a Leica M10 causes you so much angst, don't buy one. Most stores carry demo models, just as most motor dealers also have demo models for potential customers to drive. If you are so concerned about your particular camera and the dealer were to allow you to open the box and test it, then the camera would be no longer a new one and could not be sold as such. With a new car the effect would be even more dramatic. As a consumer you would have an entitlement in most jurisdictions to a replacement if the camera or any of its major functions were DOA. If everyone were to do as you suggest, the camera business in-store would soon become a complete mess and dealers might just retreat to on-line business only. William I think more people do this than you imagine. In my experience with two Leica stores (DC & Boston) the majority of new cameras and lenses in the M range have not been fully sealed boxes. In fact, the only Leica product I have purchased that WAS completely sealed was the 50 APO and I have owned a lot of different Leica equipment. All others had the little white tape compromised, including the M10, 28 Lux, etc. That being said, I have only had one brand new lens that needed to be adjusted slightly and Leica handled very quickly so I don't think you have anything to worry about buying new. Now, buying used, even from Leica dealers should require some thought. Even though it is not a controlled test, if buying used, I would take a walk around and snap some shots. Bring your computer and look at the images. This will at least tell you if the equipment is WAY OFF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted August 31, 2018 Share #40 Posted August 31, 2018 If you live in proximity to the dealer, then do as JAAPV says.. take it home and open it up yourself.. It is part of the fun and wonder of a Leica.. If you live far away and trust the dealer (not just a camera store clerk but a reputable and knowledgeable salesperson), then he can open it up and check out the camera for you. In all the years of M, R and S cameras, I have never had an issue at the onset. You may discover something in time and this is usually promptly addressed by Leica. Albert True. Unboxing my 240 Safari kit was better than any Christmas morning I ever had! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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