New M10 and 50mm Summicron Tightness

[nlk10010]

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OK, I just received my new M10 and have the typical paranoia. I figure you kind folk are the best people to ask.

 

The outer M10 sleeve/box was damaged a bit (one corner was slightly crushed) as was the inner "jewel" case. But when I opened the lid on that case the actual box containing the body (sits on top) was undamaged and the body was snug in its foam, so I'm willing to let this go. HOWEVER, I also ordered the 50mm Summicron and am having a great deal of difficulty getting it to mount firmly. I line up the red dot on the lens and the body, insert the lens and twist gently clockwise, but can't hear it "click" into position. It also is VERY stiff when turning.  I can confirm that the lens isn't in proper position since when I turn the body on and go into the "Lens Detection" menu item it's stuck on "Leica R-M" (or something like that). I can't set it to "Auto"; I select Auto but it reverts to the manual setting (this is a brand new, 6-bit coded Summicron). So I figure the camera can't detect the lens. Now by repeatedly trying to unmount and mount the lens I HAVE gotten the camera to detect it (and the lens to seemingly click into position), but only about on out of every three or four tries.

 

Not good, IMO.

 

Is this kind of thing normal with a new camera body and lens or should I exchange the lens (and/or body)?

 

I really AM trying not to be anal about this but after numerous DSLRs I kind of know how to attach a lens (stipulating to the fact that each camera, especially Leica, can be different).

 

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[david strachan]

I've found a lot of stiffness variation.

My new M-P (240) was firmer, but has now become "nice" to change lenses.

Let it wear in a bit.

 

If it stays too "uncomfortable" after some use, it'll need adjustment back at the foundry, or a good technician.

 

Hope it works itself in.

 

...

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[Pjay]

Check out this thread:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270870-tight-lens-fit/

 

For what it's worth the Summicron 50 is the tightest lens on my M10, and it's even tighter on the M246.  You might be just too gentle ;>)

[nlk10010]

Thanks to both of you for the info.

 

It’s not the tightness that’s really bothering me, I’ve had that problem with Sony but those bodies were weather-sealed. It’s the fact that getting the lens to click properly into position is so hit-and-miss. It’s going to be difficult when I need to switch lenses in the field.

 

I certainly don’t want to have to send a brand new camera and lens to Allendale, I can see if things loosen up. But if they don’t and I mar the lens mount I won’t be able to send the camera back.

 

Again, I know these are my issues and I’ll need to make a decision, I just wanted to get some feedback.

 

Again, thanks.

[dugby]

Suggest you could take both to your nearest Leica dealer and explain your situation, and then ask to try their lenses on your M10.

 

Next try your Summicron on their M10 body.

 

This may help isolate any particular mechanical issue, before having to consider remedial action with Leica.

[250swb]

My lenses were a tight fit when i first got my M10, but it only took a few days for the body to loosen up. I'm in agreement with Pjay, my M246 was tighter and it stayed tighter.

[nitrox1]

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My M10 and 50 cron are tighter than any other Leica body/lens combo I’ve ever owned before also. Mine clicks in every time however, but it takes a bit more effort. I assume they’ll wear in together nicely over time and am not stressing over it and actually appreciate such a precise tight zero slop fitment.

 

 

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[Mr.Q]

Thanks to both of you for the info.

 

It’s not the tightness that’s really bothering me, I’ve had that problem with Sony but those bodies were weather-sealed. It’s the fact that getting the lens to click properly into position is so hit-and-miss. It’s going to be difficult when I need to switch lenses in the field.

 

I certainly don’t want to have to send a brand new camera and lens to Allendale, I can see if things loosen up. But if they don’t and I mar the lens mount I won’t be able to send the camera back.

 

Again, I know these are my issues and I’ll need to make a decision, I just wanted to get some feedback.

 

Again, thanks.

I have Sony E-mount cameras and I can attest that the Leica M mount is much tighter in tolerance. 

[nlk10010]

Of course things look a bit different in the morning, I had a tough day at work yesterday.

 

Things SEEM to be a bit better, as I now realize that the "frame selector lever" (even after reading the manual I'm not quite sure what it does) clicks and moves inwards when the lens is locked into place. I would say now that with careful rotation I can succeed in mounting the Summicron correctly 3-4 times out of 5. I also noticed that the lens mount on the camera shows absolutely no signs of scuffing, so it likely is not a matter of the lens flange and mount rubbing up against each other. B&H is closed today for Holiday so I can work with the camera and bring it in tomorrow if necessary.

 

I WILL say, even after noticing that the image numbering started at 46, rather than 1, which sort of makes me suspicious, the camera handles like nothing else, I guess I'm at an age where the solid, quiet feel of the M makes a real difference. The images have a very pleasing color and quality (even up to ISO 6400) and, lo and behold!, I can actually focus well even with one eye (I just had cataract surgery on my right eye, which I am using to look through the rangefinder, I will have surgery on the left). And no diopter, at least yet.

 

I'll take the M out later on my shopping trip and take some pictures and see how we (the camera and I) get along.

 

Again, thanks to all who responded (stipulating to the fact that things can always change).

[nitrox1]

On the frame numbering, mine started at like 900 or something like that. You can reset it in the menu. My camera had a date sticker that was only 2 weeks earlier than its arrival date to me and came from B&H. No question that it was brand new untouched. The explanation about the the frame numbers was that the technicians use the same SD card in different cameras during final QC and that transfers the frame count among bodies. Enjoy. I’m heading out to a winter fest to shoot with mine today.

 

 

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[nlk10010]

On the frame numbering, mine started at like 900 or something like that. You can reset it in the menu. My camera had a date sticker that was only 2 weeks earlier than its arrival date to me and came from B&H. No question that it was brand new untouched. The explanation about the the frame numbers was that the technicians use the same SD card in different cameras during final QC and that transfers the frame count among bodies. Enjoy. I’m heading out to a winter fest to shoot with mine today.

 

 

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AHA! As I suspected, the date on my box was THREE weeks before B&H shipped it to me. Obviously had been through the wringer. 

 

Have fun at the winter fest, I'm just getting too old for this winter cold. If I wasn't stuck in NY for my job I'd scoot.

[pedaes]

The M10 mount is said to be the best yet for fit, and it is tight, especially the last fraction to click it into place and set the frame line lever on the front. Maybe they tightened the tolerances to go with the first 'weather sealed' tag. As said, you need to be a bit firmer. It will undoubtably wear in a bit. Congratulations and enjoy a great camera.

[albertknappmd]

have your dealer just play with it..

most likely tight fit and growing pains...

Will resolve!

Albert      

[TomB_tx]

My 8 or so Leica bodies have differing "tightness" on mounting, likely due to differing characteristics of the tension springs that pull the lens tight against the flange. My 1955 DS M3 is the tightest, enough so that a few lenses have the focus tighten up when mounted on it, likely due to distortion of the body around the helicoid.

[nlk10010]

Well it certainly is of some comfort to know that the "tightness" I'm experiencing is not unique (apparently far from it). It's just that I had watched some YouTube videos in which the presenter mounted and unmounted various M lenses without ANY apparent effort (basically by holding the lens in his fingertips and giving a slight twist). 

 

I am going to continue to work with my camera and lens and see if I can get to things the point where mounting and unmounting can be done reliably with not too much effort. Tightness or stiffness, to a certain degree, is certainly fine, but if I have to struggle and continue to find difficulty in getting the Summicron to click in to place, then both will go back. While B&H has certainly been fine with me I hesitate to let them get too involved in trying to convince me this is "normal" (e.g. take the combo into the back room and use a hammer and chisel ).

 

Thanks for all the help.

[M11 for me]

When mounting your lens just hold it with you whole hand (all around the lens) and turn clockwise until it snaps in. By no means just take 2 fingers to do the job. And another important thing: When mounting the lens by no means hold the lens release button pressed so that you could turn a bit further that the expected click. Through this you would not bee able to focus properly any more and you would have the next problem where there js none.

 

Maybe just worry less and start taking pictures. Then work on these pictures in post. AND ENJOY.

[nlk10010]

When mounting your lens just hold it with you whole hand (all around the lens) and turn clockwise until it snaps in. By no means just take 2 fingers to do the job. And another important thing: When mounting the lens by no means hold the lens release button pressed so that you could turn a bit further that the expected click. Through this you would not bee able to focus properly any more and you would have the next problem where there js none.

 

Maybe just worry less and start taking pictures. Then work on these pictures in post. AND ENJOY.

Thanks, yes, that's about what I'm doing (I certainly couldn't use just two fingers). I now make it a point NOT to hold the release button down, just gently but firmly rotate the lens until I hear the frame lever click and see it move inwards. Then I stop.  Once or twice I didn't and the frame lever moved back out and the lens didn't register.

 

Just for now I'm double-checking by going into the menu and seeing if lens detection is on Auto.

 

And I did just go out (granted, shopping walk with wifey) and took as many snaps as I could to test things out (she kept looking at me like "why are you taking a picture of THAT?"). Given the fact that for the first half of the walk I (mistakenly) had the lens on F2 my initial focusing efforts weren't too bad. A few situations caused difficulty with the RF (e.g. horizontal vs. vertical lines) and I also tried some zone focusing. I feel like I will be able to handle MF, in extreme circumstances I DO have LV with focus magnifying/peaking to fall back on. Given I'm in the honeymoon period, I I just love the idea of doing my own focusing with the RF and using a camera that is so retro, the shutter sound is really nice and I LOVED the colors when I looked at the DNGs in LR. Very classic and I don't mind admitting that just the experience of using an M is a huge part of why I want this camera. It's funny, my wife asked me: "Is that like the camera Anthony Armstrong-Jones used in 'The Crown'"? I just smiled.

 

We'll see how long this honeymoon lasts.

[nitrox1]

Yea, don’t hold down the lens release button. Just twist on the lens until you here that satisfying click of the lock engaging. Only found a couple interesting shots on our trip to the winter fest today. I’m absolutely LOVING my m10.

 

 

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Edited February 2, 2018 by nitrox1

[dugby]

While B&H has certainly been fine with me I hesitate to let them get too involved in trying to convince me this is "normal" (e.g. take the combo into the back room and use a hammer and chisel ).

 

 

Ahh.....B&H on 9th Ave.  Yes I too always get that feeling with them......bit of a supermarket. Say no more.

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[pedaes]

....A few situations caused difficulty with the RF (e.g. horizontal vs. vertical lines)....

 

If I understand what you are saying, you can turn the camera 90deg to focus on something horizontal and then recompose. But this may not be what you are describing.There is always a workaround for most situations.