B&W conversation thoughts

[PaulJohn]

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Converting to B&W in lightroom by clicking on black and white gives a different result to reducing the saturation to zero. The colour channels are given a standard setting with lighter blue shades and darker yellows and oranges. The auto button is already applied for you unlike other auto buttons. Photoshop makes a different set of default decisions for you if you convert with the channel mixer, giving 40% to red and green but only 20% to blue. Both programs significantly alter the histogram with these default conversion settings.

 

What are these programs assuming about my subject matter to choose these defaults?

[pgk]

As far as I can tell, converting to B&W using Camera RAW (Photoshop) simply desaturates and leaves everything else up to you. This is where I am starting from sometimes these days but then I tend to ignore defaults as much as possible anyway. The 'defaults' are, as defaults generally do, assuming things on your behalf; based on analysis of numerous conversions no doubt. They are just another form of automation and as such they are subject to the whims and preferences of their producers like any other automated system. It is possible that users of Lightroom and Photoshop have differing requirements and this is what is being taken into account. Many graphics designers use both too, but in very different ways than photographers do so its hardly surprising when things default in ways that we, as photographers, are intrigued by.

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[Martin B]

In some cases I decide to use Nik Viveza to alter the contrast and brightness of specific spots in scanned B&W film negatives. The scanned TIFF file is set for greyscale, and Nik Viveza only works with RGB color setting (and not with grey scale for some reason) of the image which I have to apply in PS. After I used Viveza with the image, I then flatten the photo and convert back to B&W - easiest is then to do it via the PS B&W conversion menu. As pointed out earlier, the standard setting in this menu does not change contrast or brightness and keeps it neutral which is beneficial for me since I already have done the post processing before. 

[250swb]

What are these programs assuming about my subject matter to choose these defaults?

 

They are assuming you have an opinion about your subject matter and are providing a starting point.

 

I don't know why anybody would desaturate an image anyway, even a B&W film novice knows that to get the best from their film they use colour (filters) to alter the wavelength of light that hits it. Throw this colour opportunity away by desaturating a digital image and evolution has gone into reverse. Just use Silver Efex (ideally as a Photoshop plugin) to do all your B&W conversions, it retains the colour information in the background and you can use this to do simple things like add a red filter to darken a blue sky. Silver Efex can of course do many other things, but it gets you much further down the path of understanding B&W compared to what Lightroom and Photoshop serve up. You can of course do all the things in Photoshop that Silver Efex can do, add filters and all sorts of stuff, but it takes a deep knowledge of Photoshop to achieve everything possible and it isn't done in the 'what you see is what you get' format of Silver Efex.

[PaulJohn]

They are assuming you have an opinion about your subject matter and are providing a starting point.

 

I don't know why anybody would desaturate an image anyway, even a B&W film novice knows that to get the best from their film they use colour (filters) to alter the wavelength of light that hits it. Throw this colour opportunity away by desaturating a digital image and evolution has gone into reverse. Just use Silver Efex (ideally as a Photoshop plugin) to do all your B&W conversions, it retains the colour information in the background and you can use this to do simple things like add a red filter to darken a blue sky. Silver Efex can of course do many other things, but it gets you much further down the path of understanding B&W compared to what Lightroom and Photoshop serve up. You can of course do all the things in Photoshop that Silver Efex can do, add filters and all sorts of stuff, but it takes a deep knowledge of Photoshop to achieve everything possible and it isn't done in the 'what you see is what you get' format of Silver Efex.

I’ve been using filters in all these programs for a while but it struck me recently that the adobe programs are applying a default preset which I suspect is a starting point for portrait photography as it is definitely not a good starting point for landscapes. It seems odd to me that all the other controls start from zero yet b&w conversion has a default preset with bias to one particular type of photography. Cold hues are made lighter and warmer hues made darker.

[robert blu]

I use Silver Efex Pro as LR CC plug in  to convert my dng files. But this is only the starting point for which I already have a rough idea of the desired final image (dramatic, soft tones, more or less details, etc).

I further make final adjustement  in LR most of the cases or if more complex in PS.

 

robert

Edited February 18, 2018 by robert blu