Off topic "studio lighting question" for newbie

[hockey44]

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Greetings,

One of my sons is working on a website (start-up) and needs static photos of some products and models. I have M240 (Nocti, FLE, 50 Lux) Sekonic 758, Digilux 2, Canon 5d2 (85 1.2, 24-70).  I have no experience with studio lighting and looking for effective 'cheap' solution that hopefully can be collapsed and 'put away' (or my wife will chase me!).  I was planning on using the Nocti on tripod (or not) with EVF if need be.  Any recommendations on suggested ISO, F stops and "kits".  I am in London and expect this 'project' will come up again later so prepared to invest in something that might work effectively.  LED approach (with collapsable Softbox) looks like a small footprint (think packed up) possibility.  Again, I apologize as I have no clue how best to do this.  We tried today and no issue with focus but oh those shadows....hmmmm.  Thanks again and sorry for this 'silly' post.  But since I have 5 'kids'-- need to help to put the Leica 'to work'....hah

[ECohen]

Why don't you rent a simple studio strobe lighting kit  with umbrellas and stands to get a feel for it, before you buy anything.

Maybe look at a kit with 2 Monolights?

 

As with all digital photography the base ISO is a good place to start ....so ISO 200

 

Your Canon with the 24to70 will be a fine camera with zoom options

Or use the your M240 with the 50.

 

All of this really depends on exactly what you will be shooting ......products and models ?

Are you shooting on white ......for everything? What are you selling/showing?

 

There are really so many ways to accomplish what you are trying to do.

I know this doesn't answer your questions ....but its a start.

Edited January 29, 2018 by ECohen

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[hockey44]

Thanks- plan is to shoot on white background.  Item is about 50cm by 10cm.  But as it is a sport recovery item, so it will be stand-alone and also on a model.  If I use Nocti any suggestions why aperture?  I assume white background makes most sense since item is grey.  There are some cheap studio 'kits' on Amazon (here in the UK)-- but welcome any suggestions.  Thanks

[Exodies]

Daylight is pretty good and with a couple of large white cards to fill in shadows you should be ok. A bit limited on the times you can shoot though.

[hoppyman]

Product photography can be quite different to shooting the product held by a model for example. You can get ‘lightcube’ type sets with collapsible white cube for diffused even light with two small lights outside. If your goal is simple wraparound soft light including with a model you might look at ringlight poular with makeup tutorials for example. Try google searches and eBay to see what is out there?

[ECohen]

As a first timer take the easy way out and use 2 photo umbrellas  (white, not silver)

 

One on the background and one on the product, off to the side. Fill in the other side with a big neutral white card reflector (bigger than the product)

Your fill card will "fill in" and lighten the shadows

 

Keep you product a couple feet from the background.
 

As for f/stop.  Shooting with a 50mm lens, stop lens down to 5.6 or 8 ......smaller as needed to tame the light,depending on how powerful your lights are.

If you have too much light, use some neutral color tissue paper over the heads. The paper will also soften the light which may be helpful to soften your shadows

 

A useful technique  to adjust the intensity of the lights, is to pull them away from the product/subject.

So if your at f/22 pull the lights back and put tissue over the heads till you get to 8 or 11.

 

Do a test when setting up, double check on the LCD that its all in focus and that the lights how you like it.
 

Since your working for your son ......an easy client ...... maybe download your tests to a computer and view them on a big screen.

Then after, client approval take your final shots and variations.
 

For studio product photography a tripod is a useful tool ..... so that you can make small repeatable changes.
 

Your trying to simulate in the studio the light outside on a cloudy day.

Light head is your sun, umbrella and tissue is your cloud.

The "soft light" you produce  is your friend.

 

Hope this helps....What else would you like to know?

[hoppyman]

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Product photography can be quite different to shooting the product held by a model for example. SNIP.... Try google searches and there are many tutorials on YouTube For example?

Just to add to my first thoughts there. You have a very significant investment in high quality camera equipment of course. Perhaps as many of us do, that’s because you value what that equipment can contribute to the quality of your photography. So it may be worth considering the quality of new hardware for this particular new style of shooting too.

Very briefly artificial lighting for this might be flash or continuous and different modifiers provide different performance.

Continuous is easier to preview and meter as far as the effect while tungsten will require different white balancing and produces significant heat. LED avoids some of that. You don’t have the range of power that studio flashes might provide, should you want to use your lighting for other purposes too. Of modifiers, umbrella provide less control of direction than softboxes can. Again depends if you might branch out into other uses of the lighting. Consider colour casts from different reflective surfaces and colour temperature variation shot to shot with different brands of studio flashs for another aspect.

So this really goes on into a complex subject of course as you get more deeply involved.

Consider a kit of two identical studio flashes, for example Elinchrom starter kits.

Have fun leaning and to reiterate my first point here, consinder the investment you have in your M and Nocti for example. Now what will it be worth to you to spend potentially more than on the most basic and cheapest lighting kits.

Edited January 30, 2018 by hoppyman

[hockey44]

After thinking probably far too much about 'flash units'.... in the words of hoppyman-- I am going to go for an Elinchrom starter.  Seems like a sensible way to go.  They have kits in the UK for about GBP 600 and you save about 100 quid if you go for for umbrella vs. softbox.   Any view on umbrella vs. softbox for 'general work'? Power range is 12-400w and to double to 800w is another 125 quid.  Is 400w sufficient for most portrait work?  This comes with a wireless trigger (which I assume will work with M240).  Many thanks,

[Jean-Michel]

Since you are in London, UK, I imagine that you have easy access to photo equipment rental, or even of studio and equipment rental. It might be worthwhile for you to rent before buying. Where I live, close to Toronto, Canada, the major stores have excellent deals for weekend rental : pick upFriday afternoon and return Monday morning and only pay for one day rental. There may be similar deals in London.

 

The 200 or 400 watts Elinchroms are probably just fine. I do not use those and have their BX500 heads.

 

Umbrellas and soft boxes produce different results, you can argue tis the cows come home as to which one  suit your photography better. I use both with depending on the setup. 

 

For product photography you may need additional equipment, such as shooting light  tables, tents, and such.

 

The Elinchrom radio transmitter works fine on any M camera.

 

A Noctilux and studio flash is really a non-starter. Even with low-powered studio flash you will be photographing at f/5.6 to f/11

 

Enjoy the  experience, just don't expect immediate excellent results, that will come as you learn.

 

Jean-Michel

[pico]

If your products will fit in them, I suggest you surf/google/ebay for light tents/boxes.

They provide well moderated diffuse light. That's important. Oh, and some fold up for storage.

Some include flash, but the flash is often inadequate. Look next for flashes.

Edited January 30, 2018 by pico

[hoppyman]

After thinking probably far too much about 'flash units'.... in the words of hoppyman-- I am going to go for an Elinchrom starter.  Seems like a sensible way to go.  They have kits in the UK for about GBP 600 and you save about 100 quid if you go for for umbrella vs. softbox.   Any view on umbrella vs. softbox for 'general work'? Power range is 12-400w and to double to 800w is another 125 quid.  Is 400w sufficient for most portrait work?  This comes with a wireless trigger (which I assume will work with M240).  Many thanks,

Umbrellas are cheaper but have less directional control. That may not matter too much for you. The power range of the cheaper units is fine for what you are describing. Typically you will be shooting stopped down but there is plenty available, especially where you are not trying to illuminate a group or large area evenly for example. The wireless trigger in built is fine. The transmitter uses the central flash contact only and will work on nearly any camera. You aren't using TTL or any metering functions.

I shot maybe several hundred images with this system on my M with no problems. Now on SL and S some tens of thousands (literally). The cyclic rate is fine too. Of course other systems will work too. I am just experienced with the Elinchrom system largely.

[hoppyman]

Jean-Michel of course the Noctilux is not needed for flash photography but hockey44 mentioned that he has one so why not. I was loaned one (I dropped my M and Summilux and they were away for repair) and tried its unique style on the street. I used it then well stopped down for a studio workshop
Loaner M and .95 Noctilux  at f/11 making this an ON TOPIC thread   
 

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Edited January 30, 2018 by hoppyman

[olgierdc]

After thinking probably far too much about 'flash units'.... in the words of hoppyman-- I am going to go for an Elinchrom starter.  Seems like a sensible way to go.  They have kits in the UK for about GBP 600 and you save about 100 quid if you go for for umbrella vs. softbox.   Any view on umbrella vs. softbox for 'general work'? Power range is 12-400w and to double to 800w is another 125 quid.  Is 400w sufficient for most portrait work?  This comes with a wireless trigger (which I assume will work with M240).  Many thanks,

 

Umbrellas are more universal. But the softbox can give more directional light. From my experience it is easier to control the background using two lamps with umbrellas. Using one softbox it's difficult to properly illuminate the other side of the face. Even a large blende is sometimes not enough. Then a third lamp is needed. All depends of course, what effect we want to achieve. If we want to have soft shadows, we bring the lamp closer to the model, therefore we do not need a lamp with high power. I use Elinchrom 100Ws in such cases.

[Jean-Michel]

Jean-Michel of course the Noctilux is not needed for flash photography but hockey44 mentioned that he has one so why not. I was loaned one (I dropped my M and Summilux and they were away for repair) and tried its unique style on the street. I used it then well stopped down for a studio workshop

Loaner M and .95 Noctilux  at f/11 making this an ON TOPIC thread 

 

Hi,

Well, yes you certainly can use a Noctilux, or any other lens. But since to OP also has a lighter 50, why not use that? The again, I would not say “no” if someone were to will me a Noctilux!

[pico]

Umbrellas are, in most cases for eBay items, just too darned big.

[ECohen]

After thinking probably far too much about 'flash units'.... in the words of hoppyman-- I am going to go for an Elinchrom starter.  Seems like a sensible way to go.  They have kits in the UK for about GBP 600 and you save about 100 quid if you go for for umbrella vs. softbox.   Any view on umbrella vs. softbox for 'general work'? Power range is 12-400w and to double to 800w is another 125 quid.  Is 400w sufficient for most portrait work?  This comes with a wireless trigger (which I assume will work with M240).  Many thanks,

 

Soft box the light is "prettier" ...more directional

Umbrellas are easier to use ......and more forgiving.

 

As a first timer go for a couple white umbrellas.....do your shoot and get used to your new lights.

Then experiment with softboxes as you get more comfortable

 

Think of softboxes and umbrellas as two different tools they both produce very nice light ...depending on the quality of light your after.

Hope this helps

Edited January 31, 2018 by ECohen

[hockey44]

For this interested-- I have concluded the Elinchrom D-Lite RX4 to go (soft boxes) to be the 'best bang for the buck'.  However, interesting that they do not have a dedicated trigger for Leica-- they have ones for Cannon, Nikon, Sony and Panasonic.  For Leica I am told you need to use their 'universal' Skyport Plus trigger.  I am going to 'test' this by bringing my M240 and also my 5D2 and see if their "universal"  trigger works for both (hopefully).  Form factor is same as the less powerful RX2 version and if you want the softbox (rather than umbrella)-- the additional expense of only GBP 50 for twice the power seems like a no-brainer.  I am also told these are universal (90-230v) so can be used around the world should one move-- I am a yank living in Europe...

[ru2far2c]

Greetings,

One of my sons is working on a website (start-up) and needs static photos of some products and models. I have M240 (Nocti, FLE, 50 Lux) Sekonic 758, Digilux 2, Canon 5d2 (85 1.2, 24-70).  I have no experience with studio lighting and looking for effective 'cheap' solution that hopefully can be collapsed and 'put away' (or my wife will chase me!).  I was planning on using the Nocti on tripod (or not) with EVF if need be.  Any recommendations on suggested ISO, F stops and "kits".  I am in London and expect this 'project' will come up again later so prepared to invest in something that might work effectively.  LED approach (with collapsable Softbox) looks like a small footprint (think packed up) possibility.  Again, I apologize as I have no clue how best to do this.  We tried today and no issue with focus but oh those shadows....hmmmm.  Thanks again and sorry for this 'silly' post.  But since I have 5 'kids'-- need to help to put the Leica 'to work'....hah

 

I'd rent your setup banks, flashes, etc, before I'd buy. If it's really what your looking for then go for it. Pocket wizards works great as transmitters and receiver for both Elinchrom and Profoto (something else to consider is Profoto). There are other after market transmitters that will work as well. I doubt it very much that Elinchrom will make a dedicated trigger for Leica anytime soon. You can always use you Canon system which would be easier to use for table top work considering the minimal focus distance of most Leica lenses unless you have a macro lens and adaptor.

[hoppyman]

Hockey44

On the transmitter , the EL transmitter Plus certainly works and is very reliable. It uses the central contact only. It’s not intended for the TIL functions. I have tens of thousands of exposures made with this and the previous model in M , SL and S cameras. It communicates directly with the in built receiver in the heads. The dedicated units for the high volume Japanese brands have more capabilities which aren’t needed for the shooting that you are describing.

If you are getting a starter kit as you describe the heads can be used with the whole range of umbrellas, sift boxes, reflectors etc.

The kit softboxes with the RX4 kits don’t fold up for storage like the Rotalux designs but will still work fine

Edited January 31, 2018 by hoppyman

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[Jean-Michel]

And: we all neglected to say the when working with studio flashes, a flash meter is essential. I use a Minolta unit, same one is now sold  under the Kenko name. Other choices are from Gossen and Sekonic.