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How best to confirm that a new M10 has zero production issues?


Skyediver

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Hi All,

 

New here.  As part of my Leica rangefinder education and to prepare for a planned M10 purchase, next weekend I'm attending the Leica M10 Boot Camp sponsored by Leica Miami.  Totally looking forward to the training, but had a question for the veterans in this forum.  Upon taking possession of a new M10, what is the best way to verify that it's a perfectly functioning unit?  Is there a "checklist" type of procedural review that is recommended?  

 

I'm not new to cameras so of course I would do the "normal" review of buttons, battery, etc., so more specifically, I'm curious about things like "rangefinder alignment issues" which I'm clueless about.  So any thoughts on that, or other particular areas to review would be helpful from more experienced M users.

 

I'm sure I can ask this question durng the upcoming Boot Camp, but I've really enjoyed immersing myself in this forum.  It's played a key role in helping me figure out if an investment into the Leica ecosystem, specifally rangefinders, would be a good move for me.

 

Charles

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Just look through the viewfinder and focus on something - if the two Images of the rangefinder are fully aligned at one point you don't have to fear misalignment.

You can then check if you get the same result by using Liveview instead of the optical rangefinder. If there are no differences the rangefinder+lens do focus properly.

 

The comparison of results from the second test with those from the first is a bit tricky, since all cirumstances must be the same, so you might need the camera on a tripod.

 

Better not to worry too much, and start with confidence that everything is o.k.

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As someone new to rangefinders, the hardest part is likely to be getting confidence that the lens/camera system is focusing accurately. All the functional things you should be able to walk through as a person experienced with cameras generally.

 

In the beginning I think it is common to miss focus and that skill comes with practice. You can do some tests by comparing RF focus with Live View, but I find that tedious and often just makes you paranoid about minor differences that show up in tests but are not really practical issues in use.

 

If you are joining the boot camp, have an experienced Leica shooter give it a spin. That might be the best quick check for RF/lens focus adjustment.

 

In any case, there’s a warranty so give yourself time to get to know the M10.

 

Michael

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Common issues (common enough that all had been reported by others when it happened to me) - and ones I experienced -

- A line through the image in the sensor starting at ISO 400-1600 (fixed by firmware / sensor mapping from Leica - idk)

- Frame selector being sticky or non-functioning when you change lenses

- 6 bit lens coding not working (camera doesn't change to 'auto' and recognize the lens you have on)

 

those were the probs my cam came with.

others involved the ISO dial becoming detached and SD cards not working but those I think have been largely resolved at this point.

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... what is the best way to verify that it's a perfectly functioning unit?

 

 

 

When I went shopping for my M10, I took an SDHC memory card and my three M-mount lenses to the Leica store for testing. However, I had to perform my tests on a demonstration body, not the actual new M10 I eventually purchased.

 

I had to take my new M10 home for testing.

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Common issues (common enough that all had been reported by others when it happened to me) - and ones I experienced -

- A line through the image in the sensor starting at ISO 400-1600 (fixed by firmware / sensor mapping from Leica - idk)

- Frame selector being sticky or non-functioning when you change lenses

- 6 bit lens coding not working (camera doesn't change to 'auto' and recognize the lens you have on)

 

those were the probs my cam came with.

others involved the ISO dial becoming detached and SD cards not working but those I think have been largely resolved at this point.

 

 

Did Leica fix the frame selector sticky one? I've got this issue - but i'm loathed to send it back again for a month (vertical rangefinder alignment out)

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The good shops will replace a brand new camera if it has issues within the first month or so. Go home and use it. I had one unit with a bad 6 bit reader and it was replace by Leica West (San Francisco) even back when stock was back ordered last May and they were very hard to come by. Both of my units came with the rangefinder misaligned vertically which is a very easy fix and both of mine are now sporting black dots from DAG Camera Repair. The vertical alignment is in my opinion, super critical to the full enjoyment of the camera. A properly aligned rangefinder will show a perfectly superimposed image in the rangefinder square that is crystal clear and sharp. Anything less than that should be adjusted. If you search this site, there are plenty of threads on how to remove the dot and make the adjustment.

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The OP seems to be new to RF cameras and wants to be able to check his. Correct? And a pretty good question.

 

AN RF needs to be in alignment horizontally and vertically so the overlap gives you a nice crisp single in focus subject.

 

Test infinity first. Most Leica RF lenses have a hard infinity stop on the lens. So if you turn the lens to infinity and find an infinity subject. (moon or something a few km's away) the RF overlap should be perfect. If there's a double edge the RF is out.

 

For close up subject, the easiest way is a tripod and live view. Focus using the RF. turn on live view and zoom in. The subject should be in focus. As a new user make sure you actually focuses properly before freaking out. RF focusing is a learned skill. you get better at it the more you do it.

 

I also do a mid distance test. About 15 meters away.

 

If the camera has any misalignment issues don't accept it. You can do these tests before you leave the store with your new camera.

 

RF camera do go out of alignment. Like a mechanical watch you should expect that occasionally they'll need some love to keep them in top working order. A good relationship with your dealer will help a lot.

 

Gordon

 

p.s. On my M10 the vertical was out. SO it focused perfectly but there was a slight overlap vertically. It's an easy fix so I did it myself.

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Hi All,

 

New here.  As part of my Leica rangefinder education and to prepare for a planned M10 purchase, next weekend I'm attending the Leica M10 Boot Camp sponsored by Leica Miami.  Totally looking forward to the training, but had a question for the veterans in this forum.  Upon taking possession of a new M10, what is the best way to verify that it's a perfectly functioning unit?  Is there a "checklist" type of procedural review that is recommended?  

 

I'm not new to cameras so of course I would do the "normal" review of buttons, battery, etc., so more specifically, I'm curious about things like "rangefinder alignment issues" which I'm clueless about.  So any thoughts on that, or other particular areas to review would be helpful from more experienced M users.

 

I'm sure I can ask this question durng the upcoming Boot Camp, but I've really enjoyed immersing myself in this forum.  It's played a key role in helping me figure out if an investment into the Leica ecosystem, specifally rangefinders, would be a good move for me.

 

Charles

 

Charles-

 

All suggestions above are apposite.

Best thing is to have your Leica dealer check out camera BEFORE shipping to you.

Josh and David at Leica Miami ALWAYS do this for me and have spotted a few problems along the way...

Saving me the aggravation...

If you have never dealt with either of them before, you are in for a treat..

They are a superb and knowledgeable team and run an outstanding shop... 

Albert   :)  :)  :)

PS. Send them my best wishes...

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Get acquainted with the M-way of photography first with an M4 for 1/10 of the price of an M10. This protects you for a lot of frustrations and panic when some results aren’t as expected. If film is not your thing, try an M8 for 1/5 of the price. Your lenses won’t go down in price if you buy them used, sometimes on the contrary.

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Our OP is a skydiver. Those folks are cautious; carry two parachutes. Kinda puts a new perspective on critical purchases. :)

Pico, normally us skydivers are accused of being anything BUT cautious!  The whole, "choosing to jump out of a perfectly good plane" thing, and all.   ;)  

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Charles-

 

All suggestions above are apposite.

Best thing is to have your Leica dealer check out camera BEFORE shipping to you.

Josh and David at Leica Miami ALWAYS do this for me and have spotted a few problems along the way...

Saving me the aggravation...

If you have never dealt with either of them before, you are in for a treat..

They are a superb and knowledgeable team and run an outstanding shop... 

Albert   :)  :)  :)

PS. Send them my best wishes...

Great to hear this feedback about the Leica Miami team; thanks for sharing.  Even more excited about the Boot Camp now!

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The OP seems to be new to RF cameras and wants to be able to check his. Correct? And a pretty good question.

 

AN RF needs to be in alignment horizontally and vertically so the overlap gives you a nice crisp single in focus subject.

 

Test infinity first. Most Leica RF lenses have a hard infinity stop on the lens. So if you turn the lens to infinity and find an infinity subject. (moon or something a few km's away) the RF overlap should be perfect. If there's a double edge the RF is out.

 

For close up subject, the easiest way is a tripod and live view. Focus using the RF. turn on live view and zoom in. The subject should be in focus. As a new user make sure you actually focuses properly before freaking out. RF focusing is a learned skill. you get better at it the more you do it.

 

I also do a mid distance test. About 15 meters away.

 

If the camera has any misalignment issues don't accept it. You can do these tests before you leave the store with your new camera.

 

RF camera do go out of alignment. Like a mechanical watch you should expect that occasionally they'll need some love to keep them in top working order. A good relationship with your dealer will help a lot.

 

Gordon

 

p.s. On my M10 the vertical was out. SO it focused perfectly but there was a slight overlap vertically. It's an easy fix so I did it myself.

Gordon, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this advice.  I like the mechanical watch analogy.  And the bit of knowledge you provide on how to conduct some regular RF maintenance.

 

I live in Denver but travel frequently for work, so haven't decided which Leica store I'll end up purchasing from, but like the idea of developing a relationship with that store will be long-term.  It's the reason I prefer buying from a Leica store as opposed to an online retailer like B&H.  

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Just take pictures. If your pictures look OK then the camera is OK.

 

+1 

 

There's no reason to start out with the assumption there is a fault to be found, this is just paranoia feeding off a very few people who get a faulty camera and are compelled to post on forums about it. Ask yourself how many don't have a problem. If new to rangefinder cameras the most fault prone part of the equation is always the user. There are frame lines to look at, a rangefinder patch to master, and stray fingers or camera straps to keep out of the way of the rangefinder windows, and the instruction book to read. Boy oh boy have you got some multi-tasking ahead of you.

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Just take pictures. If your pictures look OK then the camera is OK.

Didn't work for me. I had 3 issues, none of which showed at first when I just 'took photos' in my normal way (Iso 200, 50mm).

Nothing showed until I changed lenses and upped the ISO.

 

I had issues with both my M8 and M10 - the only ever new digital cameras I've gotten that came with flaws out of the box, I think it's smart to check your Leica out before you go on your way. 

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Yeah, if I'm being honest, the "just take pictures" advice seems a bit patronizing.  No offense meant to those suggesting that, if that wasn't the tone they were meaning to provide (sometimes hard to share nuance through the interwebs, of course).

 

My original question was driven by the simple idea that being new to rangefinders, my assumption was experienced users would have developed some procedural steps to thoroughly review their unit to verify everything was to standard.  "Just take pictures" is pretty much a given.

 

Thanks for those who provided some helpful insight.  I'm looking forward to beginning my rangefinder journey!

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+1 

 

There's no reason to start out with the assumption there is a fault to be found, this is just paranoia feeding off a very few people who get a faulty camera and are compelled to post on forums about it. Ask yourself how many don't have a problem. If new to rangefinder cameras the most fault prone part of the equation is always the user. There are frame lines to look at, a rangefinder patch to master, and stray fingers or camera straps to keep out of the way of the rangefinder windows, and the instruction book to read. Boy oh boy have you got some multi-tasking ahead of you.

 

Now that I've dived into the forum a bit more I see how you may have gotten the idea that my original question was driven by either a preconcived assumption and/or paranoia.  I assure you, that wasn't the case.  Just simple questioning from informed rangefinder users, so hopeful one day I can become one myself!

 

I do take your point to heart that I do have a lot of education and practice in my future... based on the few times I've used a rangefinder, I say that with a smile.

 

Cheers, and thanks for the advice.

Edited by Skyediver
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