shootinglulu Posted June 26, 2018 Share #41 Posted June 26, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Medium and large format film, drum scanned in that case. No competition! ..if you're scanning of course! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 Hi shootinglulu, Take a look here I posted this on the M10 area but I'd like to let SL observers see it.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bencoyote Posted June 26, 2018 Share #42 Posted June 26, 2018 I agree that they are different. I like the SL for astrophotography, telephoto, and video. I think that if I had a really wide angle lens it would be the one for that too. For the small amount of architecture that I do for my friend the CV 15mm is good enough. I kind of wish there was a macro though. For some things I can use the 90-280mm at near minimum focal distances in a macro-ish sort of way. (At the moment for real macro I use the Olympus TG-5 whose minimum focal distance seems to be the surface of the glass.) This is the capability camera, It can do basically anything a pro needs to do. The M240 is my favorite camera. Maybe the M10 is in my future sometime in the future For capability and portability I find the Summilux 50mm the perfect match. With one body and that one lens I can do so much. Sometimes my like backpacking my 28mm Summicron works better. The compact ultraportablity and inoffensiveness just works. Together they are great complements to each other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Pastoukhov Posted June 26, 2018 Share #43 Posted June 26, 2018 Congratulations Francisco ! (for the 80- ties finally not so heavy) So the question is with or without SL (being with M10 and Monochrome with 4 superb lenses). Tomorrow I go to Havana for two weeks and in return after the experience with the two M will discuss the question again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted June 27, 2018 Share #44 Posted June 27, 2018 M10 and SL here. The M10 sees the 21 SEM, 28 Cron Asph v2 or the 35 FLE. The SL sees the 50 Lux Asph and the 90 APO. Once the 16-35 comes out, that will be my primary landscape lens on the SL. All wonder kit, and fully complementary. Leica is hitting it out of the park right now, they just need to up the pixel count on the next generation SL. They do this, and there is no need for the S product line. If they up the pixel count on the SL, the T/CL lenses will then produce something like 12-16mp APS/C files. I see that as extremely desirable. The T lenses are superb (surprised me) and far smaller than the native SL lenses. I've used the 23mm (35mm equiv) and the SL + 23mm is a very compact package, good for candids. The bonus is AF for when you need or want it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencoyote Posted June 28, 2018 Share #45 Posted June 28, 2018 If they up the pixel count on the SL, the T/CL lenses will then produce something like 12-16mp APS/C files. I see that as extremely desirable. The T lenses are superb (surprised me) and far smaller than the native SL lenses. I've used the 23mm (35mm equiv) and the SL + 23mm is a very compact package, good for candids. The bonus is AF for when you need or want it. Agreed but I feel like the limiting factor in digital photography these days is not pixels or iso, it is dynamic range. That’s still one where big wells matter. The other one is sensor read out speed which affects AF, the refresh rate of an EVF, as well as video performance. I think that this is one place Sony (and maybe Nikon and Canon - I don’t know) did it right with the 7, the 7R, 7S for different types of shooters. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanD Posted June 28, 2018 Share #46 Posted June 28, 2018 One more time: if I buy SL system is to replace all my Canon staff. But if I have to use it with my M lenses and need to have focus peaking manually is it not better to stay with M10 and and Canon? It may be hearsay, but for fast 70-200/2.8 or 300/2.8 or Macro or tilt shift, you are probably better off with the Canon and the 5Ds/5DsR. The 5DsR can be bought for bargain pricing now and offers great daylight and dusk performance. For low light, your M10 is plenty good with fast glass that is sharp wide open. There still isn’t a good answer to your conundrum. There isn’t a perfect camera... Leica Q / Leica X-U / RX1R II / X100F for light travel. ( I dream of a Leica Q-U. ) M for rangefinder experience. X-H1 / GH5 for video with IBIS and small lenses Canon / Nikon for sports and birding and fast long tele SL for video on jibs/Tripod/gimbal plus everything but sports S for landscape and portraits ——— Personally I think Leica should do 1) Leica Q-U 2) Leica M11 at 24-28MP (limits of RF accuracy; keep pushing low light limits) 3) Leica SL2 at 36-42MP (can keep SL in line up as entry level) 4) Leica S3 at 64-72MP. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted June 28, 2018 Share #47 Posted June 28, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) It may be hearsay, but for fast 70-200/2.8 or 300/2.8 or Macro or tilt shift, you are probably better off with the Canon and the 5Ds/5DsR. The 5DsR can be bought for bargain pricing now and offers great daylight and dusk performance. For low light, your M10 is plenty good with fast glass that is sharp wide open. There still isn’t a good answer to your conundrum. There isn’t a perfect camera... Leica Q / Leica X-U / RX1R II / X100F for light travel. ( I dream of a Leica Q-U. ) M for rangefinder experience. X-H1 / GH5 for video with IBIS and small lenses Canon / Nikon for sports and birding and fast long tele SL for video on jibs/Tripod/gimbal plus everything but sports S for landscape and portraits ——— Personally I think Leica should do 1) Leica Q-U 2) Leica M11 at 24-28MP (limits of RF accuracy; keep pushing low light limits) 3) Leica SL2 at 36-42MP (can keep SL in line up as entry level) 4) Leica S3 at 64-72MP. For any of the MF Canon lenses (TS, MPE etc...) I think a mirrorless camera is far superior to a DSLR. It's much easier to focus precisely and the adaptor pushes the controls away from the camera body making the TS lenses better to use. I much prefer the SL with Canon's TS lenses to any Canon body and default to a SOny A7R3 when I need resolution. I do like your list at the end though. I'd add the current CL as well and maybe a 24x36 version of it. Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbrown Posted July 1, 2018 Share #48 Posted July 1, 2018 I find the M series digital very fast to shoot with the right light, and the SL equally fast for completely different reasons. For me, the versatility of lenses able to mount on the SL is ideal, especially with the ergonomics of the body. I typically keep a M lens on the body as my "lens cap" and will use any of my M, R, S, and native TL mount lenses. My friends that shoot Fuji, Sony, or Panasonic first balk at the size of the SL... but then start to realize that there is something missing with their camera bodies. It actually has the ideal grip for any size lens. I will also tell you a little story.... My SL was borrowed by my assistant, who was using it for video. He pulled off the strap obviously - but then I needed it and wanted the strap on. It had been so long since I had removed it that I forgot to lock the strap in place. The SL feel to my very hard concrete studio floor, and to make matters worse, in haste to grab it I inadvertently KICKED it halfway across the room. I thought it was TOAST... My SL turned on. I had the sensor checked, nothing. Nothing happened to it. Well, besides a small dent on the edge of the handgrip. I SHUDDER to think what would have happened to my M10 with the same mistake!! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Pastoukhov Posted December 9, 2018 Share #49 Posted December 9, 2018 Well, finally I left behind the system Canon and after M10 and Monochrome - they are fantastic as well as the lenses M - I arrived to the SL with the 24-90. This completed everything I need. I will be grateful if someone can give me an advice how low I can go with the speed in program M or A what I use more often. Still can not understand if the camera, the lens or both of them are stabilised?? Or they are not stabilised. Into the program of the camera there is a choice to stabilise the image.Thank you in advance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno_photoguy Posted December 9, 2018 Share #50 Posted December 9, 2018 I have a M10 and M246, but got the SL about a week ago by trading in my M9. As many of you have stated, they are very different cameras. Although I have both the M and R adapters for the SL, I find that I am mainly using my R lenses. Perhaps it is just the fun of using them again, as I did with my R8 DMR. The SL really does feel like the digital R solution that Leica promised long ago, even if that may not have been the core intent. I even picked up the SF60 to use with the SL noting that I have never used a flash on any of my M's. They are both GREAT cameras, but very different experiences. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 9, 2018 Share #51 Posted December 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Ivan Pastoukhov said: Well, finally I left behind the system Canon and after M10 and Monochrome - they are fantastic as well as the lenses M - I arrived to the SL with the 24-90. This completed everything I need. I will be grateful if someone can give me an advice how low I can go with the speed in program M or A what I use more often. Still can not understand if the camera, the lens or both of them are stabilised?? Or they are not stabilised. Into the program of the camera there is a choice to stabilise the image.Thank you in advance. The 24-90 has stabilization capability (OIS), but the SL does not (no IBIS). Handhold-ability depends on you, with or without stabilization. The SL 90-280 is also stabilized, but none of the other native lenses to date are. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Pastoukhov Posted December 10, 2018 Share #52 Posted December 10, 2018 Thank you Jeff, but I can not understand why 24-90 should be stabilized if SL is not or I didn't quite understand your meaning? In short do I need to behave like it is nor stabilized? In Leica shop I was told that the system is stabilized and I could shot in low speed (1/30 or 1/40,50,60..). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted December 10, 2018 Share #53 Posted December 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Ivan Pastoukhov said: Thank you Jeff, but I can not understand why 24-90 should be stabilized if SL is not or I didn't quite understand your meaning? In short do I need to behave like it is nor stabilized? In Leica shop I was told that the system is stabilized and I could shot in low speed (1/30 or 1/40,50,60..). As stated, there is no sensor stabilisation on the SL (or on any Leica bodies), but there are stabilisation mechanism(s) built into the two longest SL-zooms. The stabilisation needs to be activated in the SL-menu, look after 'Optical Image Stabilization' in the SL's menu. I have turned this on. It is ignored for all but the SL 24-90 and 90-280 lenses. Once activated, and with one of the two zooms on the SL, you can see it's fingerprint by looking through the EVF: When moving the camera, the image tend to lag a little, before it settes down/freezes. This is the stabilisation at work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 10, 2018 Share #54 Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Ivan Pastoukhov said: Thank you Jeff, but I can not understand why 24-90 should be stabilized if SL is not or I didn't quite understand your meaning? In short do I need to behave like it is nor stabilized? In Leica shop I was told that the system is stabilized and I could shot in low speed (1/30 or 1/40,50,60..). I think that you are missing that there are two different kinds of image stabilization: One in the body (which the SL does not have) which is mostly mechanical -moving sensor or digital, and in the lens, which is optical, a moving lens element. The 24-90 and 90-280 Offer this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistairm Posted December 10, 2018 Share #55 Posted December 10, 2018 The M10 is the best rangefinder I have used and I love the camera. But, despite being “OVF for life” the real time exposure of the EVF is much more useful for most of my photography. I’ve now sold the M10 and use the MA (very often) for my fun photography. I will buy an M10M immediately upon release. The L mount alliance answers all the questions about the SL future... the ecosystem is now way past minimum viable proposition and the glass is to die for. The more I’ve used all systems the less I enjoy the smaller CL sensor though... if I had my time again I’d skip that and keep the M10 as my small digital body. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Pastoukhov Posted December 11, 2018 Share #56 Posted December 11, 2018 Good to know all this - thank you Helged. I activated the stabilisation in SL as you said and moving the camera, the image tend to lag a little - but I can shot with 24-90 in lower speed. This make sens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Pastoukhov Posted December 11, 2018 Share #57 Posted December 11, 2018 ... I could add that M10, Monochrome and SL are complementary and if possible good to have them. Not to say about the lenses! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 11, 2018 Share #58 Posted December 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Ivan Pastoukhov said: Good to know all this - thank you Helged. I activated the stabilisation in SL as you said and moving the camera, the image tend to lag a little - but I can shot with 24-90 in lower speed. This make sens. To be clear, you activated image stabilization in the 24-90 lens, where the optical stabilization resides (no in-body stabilization system in the SL body), but you can turn this on or off using the camera menu settings. Only the two zooms can currently take advantage of this menu setting. (Note that some lenses from other companies have a mechanical switch on the lens to activate its OIS, rather than through the camera menu). Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Pastoukhov Posted December 22, 2018 Share #59 Posted December 22, 2018 Thank you Jeff. I have one more question: with the 24-90 on the body SL when focussing I have the normal red picking I installed, but with all lenses M I don't have it. I have to count only of the clear vision into the viseur (viewfinder). Is this normal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 22, 2018 Share #60 Posted December 22, 2018 This might help... Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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