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I posted this on the M10 area but I'd like to let SL observers see it.


WillB

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There is a M10 vs SL topic and I wrote the following:


 


 


Posted Today, 13:15



My Leica experience/background is Leicaflex SL2, M4, M6, and M9 when it came out.


 


The M9 developed the sensor issue and I returned for replacement to Leica USA right at the end of the August 15 eligibility for free repair date . After four months of waiting for it to be returned I decided to buy an M10. I've used for a month and it is a excellent evolution and advancement over the trusty M9. I purchaed the R to M lens adapter so I can use my eight old R lenses (from my SL2) with the M10 (along with my four M lenses) and I bought the excellent Type 020 EVF. Brilliant camera.


 


While continuing to wait for my M9 to be returned I became aware of the Leica Update program and I decided to use it to trade the M9 towards an SL.


I also purchased the M to L lens adapter.


 


It took me a few days to grasp fully the OS / Menu / Options system on the SL but once I did (consulting the manual often) I found it to be excellent and very efficient. This is with Firmware 3.0. The programmable seven (?) buttons make access to anything very fast. The EVF is quite a remarkable achievement and I find focusing very easy through it and it's aids. I've not tried the video feature but based on a video I watched with a pro using it (on the Leica site) for a shoot it too appears to be of very flexible and very high quality, (especially if you are a pro) when using an external storage device.


 


For three weeks now I've been using the SL with my eight (SL2 era) R lenses (21, 28, 35, 50, 50 1.4, 90, 135, 180mm). The body/lens balance is very good.


I've also used my M lenses on the SL. The flexibility of having both lens adapters (R to M & M to L) is the benefit for my with the two cameras and using the applicable adapter(s) as needed either stacked or separate (vs the one R to L lens adapter).


 


My conclusion is the SL is obviously a completely different type of device but equally as brilliant as the M10. The SL is a technically advanced and fast device and it is capable of using Leica Autofocus lenses. I'm using the SL with only manual focus lenses. However, the AutoFocus SL lenses available is expanding and now includes two zooms, a 50mm, 75mm, 90mm (and a 35 is rumored to be available soon) perhaps I will try AF one day.


 


After using the SL for two days in a row I grabbed the M10, turned it on and while looking through the viewfinder (not EVF) composing a photograph I thought to myself, "Wait a second. Where is the ....." 


 


I'm not suggesting the SL is better (or worse) than the M10.


I'm suggesting they are both truly great cameras.


 


Reminds my of my old film days when I carried and used the Leicaflex SL2 and a Leica M.



Edited by WillB
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There is absolutely no point comparing the two ..... both excel in completely different ways and methods of arriving at the final image.

 

The end result remains very much the same ...... and Leica users are lucky to have the choice ..... albeit at a price ....  :huh:

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The SL is a sleeper, it is not immediately apparent how well structured the menu system is, a few days use is required.  The one day trial from Leica is insufficient to learn the nuances.   It's difficult not to compare it to the M, a camera worthy of praise for many aspects but after using the SL I find my M gets too little use.   

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The SL pretty much stopped my use of the Leica M-P 240 because all of the "niche" things I was doing a lot of with the M-P 240 (macro, copywork long lens work, etc) were done much more easily and with better results with the SL. I didn't touch the M-P for almost half a year. 

 

But after that time I found I missed the light, simple M-P used just as a native rangefinder camera for general purpose photography and traveling. But I didn't need all the additional complexity and features of the M-P anymore. 

 

Just then the M-D 262 came out. I looked at one after wanting the M Edition 60 camera and the thought came to me, "This is exactly what I want in an M camera." I bought one and it's worked so well for me as my grab and go, every day use camera that I have sometimes felt the SL wasn't getting the use it deserved .. Until I pull it out to do a simple odd, niche job that the M is really not designed for. Then I know I will keep both and use them mindful of their strengths. :)

Edited by ramarren
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I was using M (240) when SL comes out, after having a look at it I felt that was not for me, mainly the size issue. I’ve sold M and the plan was to get M10, meantime I was using Fuji X-Pro2, when Leica dealer call me that my M10 arrived I cancel the order. I know it is a Leica tradition, but I could not go back to rangefinder for various reasons and purchased SL only 4 month ago. Right now I am using it with M and R lenses, plan is to get 24-90 soon. What a fantastic camera.

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The main difference between M and SL, for me, is the unbeaten versatility of the latter. And if size and weight really matters, I clearly prefer CL over M. So the preferred combination, again for me, is SL + CL. That the two systems share the same mount, and thus lenses, is a great add on. I may consider a monochrome version of the M10, but otherwise any M would not see too much use, particularly now with the CL in-house. For this reason, I have sold the M-bodies, but I keep most of the M-lenses for occasional use on SL and CL, plus the possibility of a M-body sometime in the future.

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Both the M10 & SL are full frame 24MP camera’s from Leica, but the common features end here. As for the rest, both cameras are different as chalk & cheese. The SL is a workhorse which does AF to manual focusing of M & R and other maker lenses. The M10 remains as a purist rangefinder / EVF Camera.

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The main difference between M and SL, for me, is the unbeaten versatility of the latter. And if size and weight really matters, I clearly prefer CL over M. So the preferred combination, again for me, is SL + CL. That the two systems share the same mount, and thus lenses, is a great add on.

 

Ditto ....... I have sold off everything else except the Q ....... which is in the safe looking anxious whenever it overhears eBay being discussed .....

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A friend of mine is a professional photographer who uses the M monochrome and an M10. He has some fast newer Leica M lens that he uses with his two M bodies. I should mention he has some other brands of digital cameras

 

Often his photography is dynamic (vs. static) situation. I suggested he try the SL and mentioned the one day SL test program that Leica dealers offer.Yesterday he tried the SL from his dealer.

 

He got to test an SL, the M to L converter and the 24mm-90mm zoom lens. He is beyond pleased with his day one photographs and believes the SL is a better camera for his needs (dynamic). He was also very impressed with the loaner 24-90 lens. He is questioning whether he needs the M10 now. I suggested keeping both.

Edited by WillB
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It sounds like I have had similar experiences to others here. After the M10 arrived I sold my old RF cameras other than my MM. Shortly after I sold the MM. The M10 is such a brilliant RF that I preferred shooting it for BW to the MM.

 

Despite that I have taken around 30 times more photos with the SL than the M10 in the past year. It's hard to argue against the EVF Leica offerings as sensational image making tools, especially as the SL/TL lenses are almost all brilliant.

 

That said, for street/casual candid photography most people still don't react to an M the same way they do if you point the SL at them (even with M lenses mounted), so for candid photography I still find the M reigns supreme, even amongst my family and friends who are used to me carrying a camera. The M just seems to attract less attention. Time will tell if the CL blends the same way the M does.

 

The M bodies are also excellent for travel of course. But with the advent of the CL the M10 is even under threat in that role.

 

These days the M10 is set to BW JPEG and I predominantly use it now when I want to think in BW. It is a little sad, but the SL/CL is such a compelling combination that the M has become a real luxury item.

 

It seems like a bit of a golden era in which to be fortunate enough to be ale to afford to shoot Leica. The cameras are great, the lenses continue to lead the industry and there is great flexibility of approach available. If I could get my head around making better flash photos with the SL and Leica releases a teleconverter for the and a long, fast lens then all my photography equipment dreams will have come true!

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If one is in a position to own both, it's worth it.  Everyone will have different needs at different times, but for me, the M10 is the camera I use walking around cities, and the SL is the camera I use for landscapes and specific purposes, including portraits.  I love the freedom of walking out the door with the highly capable M.  And I love having a tool like the SL after 15 years of using an M exclusively.

 

Both cameras have downsides, if not limitations.  The SL is a pretty big camera to walk around with.  The M lacks certain capabilities.  As a pair, they are awesome, and I cannot imagine foregoing one for the other, and pray I never have to choose.

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M10 and SL here. The M10 sees the 21 SEM, 28 Cron Asph v2 or the 35 FLE. The SL sees the 50 Lux Asph and the 90 APO. Once the 16-35 comes out, that will be my primary landscape lens on the SL. All wonder kit, and fully complementary. Leica is hitting it out of the park right now, they just need to up the pixel count on the next generation SL. They do this, and there is no need for the S product line.

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Leica is hitting it out of the park right now, they just need to up the pixel count on the next generation SL. They do this, and there is no need for the S product line.

The S will still be distinguished by the larger sensor, which MP cannot fully match, albeit at a potential cost in other usability aspects. And, if the S maintains that big, beautiful optical VF, there will always be a user segment that prefers that to EVF.

 

Choices are good. Horses.....

 

Jeff

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  • 2 weeks later...

For the last ten years I have  entirely used Canon with its best lenses. Lately I sold my EOS 5DsR to return to Leica.

Now I am very happy with M10 with 4 fantastic lenses.

Well, anyway I kept one EOS5D mark IV and some good lenses with it. My question is do I need to change Canon for Leica SL and what difference between the two?

Not to say that having in hand M10  I am dreaming for M10M as well. But this doesn't change the question for the SL (or Canon)

What is worthwhile doing in my case? Thanks!

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For the last ten years I have  entirely used Canon with its best lenses. Lately I sold my EOS 5DsR to return to Leica.

Now I am very happy with M10 with 4 fantastic lenses.

Well, anyway I kept one EOS5D mark IV and some good lenses with it. My question is do I need to change Canon for Leica SL and what difference between the two?

Not to say that having in hand M10  I am dreaming for M10M as well. But this doesn't change the question for the SL (or Canon)

What is worthwhile doing in my case? Thanks!

 

For me it was a good move to go to one brand and being able to also use M lenses on the SL and to have comparable menues. I also slightly prefer color from SL over Canon. And I love the 24-90.

However EVF is different from OVF.

For my part I am happy to move from Canikon to SL as a fast flexible camera.

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For the last ten years I have entirely used Canon with its best lenses. Lately I sold my EOS 5DsR to return to Leica.

Now I am very happy with M10 with 4 fantastic lenses.

Well, anyway I kept one EOS5D mark IV and some good lenses with it. My question is do I need to change Canon for Leica SL and what difference between the two?

Not to say that having in hand M10 I am dreaming for M10M as well. But this doesn't change the question for the SL (or Canon)

What is worthwhile doing in my case? Thanks!

Ask yourself the reason that kept you happy with the M10? The images produced by the Leica glasses? The compactness of the M?

If your answer is 70% or more the first. Then it makes sense for you to move onto SL away from Canon as the SL can take on the M lenses on top of the native AF lenses. Else keep your Canon.

I have both M10 & SL. All because I love the Leica glasses. I go to my SL with native lenses for the convenience of AF & zoom as well as for weather sealing capability as my workhorse camera and go to my M10 when I can afford slow manual focus and enjoy pure photography at limited application but I get to enjoy the pleasure of the process.

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Thank you for the quick reply.

I understand SL with appropriate lenses will give me the colours of Leica slightly different from Canon and the pleasure to have it in hand...

How about black and white photography I am going to more and more - that's why I mentioned the idea of M10M (with M10 I am satisfied via B/W ) ?

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A Monochrom is a wonderful tool when you go out to take B&W photographs specifically.  I would not part with mine, although I use it sparingly.

However, with a bit of postprocessing skill one can get more than excellent B&W results out of any good camera.

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