Leica S or Phase One

[Photon42]

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I am clearly not the expert in Medium Format offerings. I've got an S2 last year and still have some film Hasselblad and Contax gear. For real portraiture work, I would look to get a system which has a lot of options regarding "character" lenses. For me, this would be either Leica S or Fuji at this point. Given the potential of S lenses, I'd go for the S. You can get a Contax 80, Hasselblad 110f2, Mamiya 1.9/80, Contax 140, Hasselblad 2.2/100 adapted, some even with AF. This in addition to Summarit 120, 70 and Summicron 100 from the S line. It doesn't get much better. Lenses stay and tend to be longer term investments. Apart from both 100s mentioned, I actually own the lenses mentioned. Really no regrets. One day I may update the S2, but will probably wait for a more digestible price point of the James Bond edition.

[Guest]

Ruz

I have the Leica S007 with 3 lenses (an amazing system)........Ive used it in the studio, field and also as a walk about camera. You maybe want to take a look at the Hasselblad H6D 50 or 100c. I just bought the H6D100c along with 3 HC lenses to use mainly for shooting Landscape and Pretty girls. First impressions are it feels amazing in my hands, the button arrangements are fantastic apart from the mirror up button (I find that button very awkward with my large hand to get to) so I reassigned the AEL button to mirror up and now its perfect.

 

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[Jeff S]

Ruz

I have the Leica S007 with 3 lenses (an amazing system)........Ive used it in the studio, field and also as a walk about camera. You maybe want to take a look at the Hasselblad H6D 50 or 100c. I just bought the H6D100c along with 3 HC lenses to use mainly for shooting Landscape and Pretty girls. First impressions are it feels amazing in my hands, the button arrangements are fantastic apart from the mirror up button (I find that button very awkward with my large hand to get to) so I reassigned the AEL button to mirror up and now its perfect.

Welcome back, ‘newbie’ Neil.

 

Jeff

[xiaubauu2009]

Ruz

I have the Leica S007 with 3 lenses (an amazing system)........Ive used it in the studio, field and also as a walk about camera. You maybe want to take a look at the Hasselblad H6D 50 or 100c. I just bought the H6D100c along with 3 HC lenses to use mainly for shooting Landscape and Pretty girls. First impressions are it feels amazing in my hands, the button arrangements are fantastic apart from the mirror up button (I find that button very awkward with my large hand to get to) so I reassigned the AEL button to mirror up and now its perfect.

 

 

I am not sure why the H6D100c doesn't incorporate ES to their back. It is a very very useful feature for Landscape.

[Guest]

What’s ES?

 

 

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[RVB]

What’s ES?

 

 

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Electronic Shutters?

[sortvitt]

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What’s ES?

 

 

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Electronic shutter. It's in the works for the H6D according to Hasselblads product manager, not sure when as I'm sure the X1D firmware takes priority.

[xiaubauu2009]

Electronic shutter. It's in the works for the H6D according to Hasselblads product manager, not sure when as I'm sure the X1D firmware takes priority.

 

 

Play around with my friend's H6D 100c, it feels a bit better than the P1 XF, but not by much. The back has not battery so adapting it on a tech cam will be slightly annoying as you need another cable to attach a USB power block... which also mean it cannot be use handheld with a tech cam.

But the color profile is much more accurate than the P1...

[Guest]

Play around with my friend's H6D 100c, it feels a bit better than the P1 XF, but not by much. The back has not battery so adapting it on a tech cam will be slightly annoying as you need another cable to attach a USB power block... which also mean it cannot be use handheld with a tech cam.

But the color profile is much more accurate than the P1...

John

The H6D has its own Tech Camera attachment (T1 or something like that) that I plan to buy at a later date..... maybe

[xiaubauu2009]

John

The H6D has its own Tech Camera attachment (T1 or something like that) that I plan to buy at a later date..... maybe

 

 

They have? you mean that 1.4x HST thingy?

[Guest]

They have? you mean that 1.4x HST thingy?

yes

 

 

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[xiaubauu2009]

Ok, the 1.4x optics will degrade your image somewhat. particularly pronounce on your high resolution 100mp back

[Ruz]

Any particular reason why you'd want to get Phase One and not Hasselblad or Fuji? I think Hasselblad and Fuji lenses are more pleasant for portraits than Phase One lenses.

 

 

Fuji is out of the consideration because of its sensor is limited to 50MPx, and Hasselblad, I’ve never found a great dealer in my country with a nice attitude. They’re serving me as I am not able to purchase the freaking system. For Phase One, the main reason is the upgrade later on will be much easier for me, as its considered to be a modular camera. So I don’t need to purchase the whole system again, and I’d rather spend my cash on Leica S because I really love Leica system and Lenses. Hahaha, just my thoughts.

 

Yes and No. It depends on a few things.

 

Yes, pixel count can help make a fashion picture look better. It certainly prints bigger and better, it is much better to retouch too. The colour, Dynamic range and malleability of these cameras is also on another level. Decent clients can see medium format quality and it makes a difference if you are shooting with one purely on a perception level - ie. it is to some more impressive.

 

But does it suit your style? Pretty much the main thing that will attract a decent client is your actual work and it's contents, your style and point of view. You are far better off, in the beginning, spending it on studio time, spending it on set, props, locations etc. The best camera in the world won't get you work on its own, even if your work is ok. Medium Format Digital is overkill the beginning and it's not going to make much difference. A Nikon D850 is more than enough to start with.

 

But if you've already got that bit underway then by all means go for it.

 

Phase One is pretty much a standard in the industry for Medium Format, Capture One has a lot to do with that. The S works with Capture One, but not as well as Phase One. Also bear in mind that film is still very much "in fashion" and still not going away and growing by the day.

 

If you do want Medium Format, I would recommend looking at the IQ 50 range. I have had a P65+ (same sensor as IQ160) for a very long time, it covers most things, but I rent the CMOS backs occasionally because the high iso makes a difference, even in the studio. Even if you think you're just going to use flash, then you might be surprised - fashion changes a lot and you need to be adaptable. There is also a big difference in crew, logistics, expense, time, speed, studio size, etc etc etc in using 600w instead of 4K HMI/Tungsten. in using a camera that doesn't always need a tripod etc.

 

The S is very compelling too. It's just hard to get a picture of it's future and reliability etc. If you have time to wait - do. Soon the 50 backs will be replaced with 100 backs and prices on everything else will come down. Also there will be a new S and a better view of what Leica have got in mind.

I’m considering the IQ350, but that’s really the last thing. Because its not a fullframe sensor and its 50MPx. I’m trying to get something above the 50. Anyway, this is my first medium format system, So I really want to use this for a long time, isn’t getting a 50Mpx sensor will get obsolete faster? and Why I’m considering a Leica S despite of its 36MPx, its just I love Leica System, it has a great IQ, it performs very very well above the listed MPx on paper. Edited January 26, 2018 by Ruz

[Paul J]

Fuji is out of the consideration because of its sensor is limited to 50MPx, and Hasselblad, I’ve never found a great dealer in my country with a nice attitude. They’re serving me as I am not able to purchase the freaking system. For Phase One, the main reason is the upgrade later on will be much easier for me, as its considered to be a modular camera. So I don’t need to purchase the whole system again, and I’d rather spend my cash on Leica S because I really love Leica system and Lenses. Hahaha, just my thoughts.

 

I’m considering the IQ350, but that’s really the last thing. Because its not a fullframe sensor and its 50MPx. I’m trying to get something above the 50. Anyway, this is my first medium format system, So I really want to use this for a long time, isn’t getting a 50Mpx sensor will get obsolete faster? and Why I’m considering a Leica S despite of its 36MPx, its just I love Leica System, it has a great IQ, it performs very very well above the listed MPx on paper.

 

 

Well if you like the S, go for it. I really like the S rendering. I don't agree it performs above the pixel count but it is very good, only when comparing it with 35mm cameras i would say it's above the pixel count. The S2 and 006 are very comparable with the 39MP P45+

 

The difference between the 50 and 60MP Phase One sensors is small, just perceptible. The S has a cropped sensor too. It's more noticeable on the 180.

 

The next jump up is the IQ180 and the resolution jump is a lot more noticeable. You also get a bigger sensor+ file at 20MP so it's a better compromise. But it's ISO limited and is not as forgiving and usable as the CMOS backs, you re going to need a tripod a lot, lot more. Or a lot more light.

 

The dynamic range difference between the 50, 60 and 80 is in favour of the 50 by a very good margin. The 50 has 2 stops more Dynamic Range than then 60 at ISO 100. It is far more versatile/usable, the sensor is seriously incredible. You can, within reason, choose any shutter speed and aperture you like and get a clean image. The CCD backs have more pixel level artefacts in the shadows.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Paul J

[kparseg]

Fuji is out of the consideration because of its sensor is limited to 50MPx, and Hasselblad, I’ve never found a great dealer in my country with a nice attitude. They’re serving me as I am not able to purchase the freaking system. For Phase One, the main reason is the upgrade later on will be much easier for me, as its considered to be a modular camera. So I don’t need to purchase the whole system again, and I’d rather spend my cash on Leica S because I really love Leica system and Lenses. Hahaha, just my thoughts.

 

I’m considering the IQ350, but that’s really the last thing. Because its not a fullframe sensor and its 50MPx. I’m trying to get something above the 50. Anyway, this is my first medium format system, So I really want to use this for a long time, isn’t getting a 50Mpx sensor will get obsolete faster? and Why I’m considering a Leica S despite of its 36MPx, its just I love Leica System, it has a great IQ, it performs very very well above the listed MPx on paper.

 

Anything will become obsolete. The 50MPx sensor may become somewhat obsolete when it's replaced with a new 100MPx one. The question is if these 50MPx are enough for your work or not. People produce wonderful prints with 10+ year 20-22MPx digital backs or 35mm cameras.

[Paul J]

Ok, the 1.4x optics will degrade your image somewhat. particularly pronounce on your high resolution 100mp back

 

 

What you gain in movement is much better than the small decrease in image quality.

[xiaubauu2009]

What you gain in movement is much better than the small decrease in image quality.

True.

[BernardC]

isn’t getting a 50Mpx sensor will get obsolete faster?

Obsolescence is the last thing I would worry about. Any high-end sensor made in this decade is more than capable of delivering the goods.

Future sensors may have higher pixel counts, better low-light sensitivity, and more video features. Any of these may be nice to have, but they are just incremental improvements over current sensors.

 

How many clean stops beyond ISO 6400 do you really need? Maybe a few photographers doing hand-held deep focus nightscapes need more, but I find that light looks terrible at those levels: off-coloured and contrasty.

 

Are you really running short of resolution at 37, 50, or 100 megapixels? Some specialized photographers need more, but not too many. The current S has enough resolution for "plan américain" (knees-up) portraits printed life-size. Some landscape shooters benefit from 100 MP, but that's pushing beyond what their lenses can deliver.

 

As I said before, all of the systems you've mentioned will provide you with outstanding technical capabilities. Leica's S system stands out for its speed, handling, lenses, and viewfinder. Phase One's cameras fall behind in these categories, but they do offer the highest resolution and an outstanding ecosystem that includes CaptureOne software and great dealer support. Hasselblad's ecosystem is arguably just as good (depending on your local distributor), and their cameras are much more elegantly designed than PhaseOne's.

 

What I would do at this point is to seek-out some demos, get a feel for how these cameras integrate into your workflow, and play around with files that you've shot. I think that your optimal system will soon be obvious. I don't know what that system will be, but there are no "bad" choices in this market.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Fuji is out of the consideration because of its sensor is limited to 50MPx, and Hasselblad, I’ve never found a great dealer in my country with a nice attitude. They’re serving me as I am not able to purchase the freaking system. For Phase One, the main reason is the upgrade later on will be much easier for me, as its considered to be a modular camera. So I don’t need to purchase the whole system again, and I’d rather spend my cash on Leica S because I really love Leica system and Lenses. Hahaha, just my thoughts.

 

I’m considering the IQ350, but that’s really the last thing. Because its not a fullframe sensor and its 50MPx. I’m trying to get something above the 50. Anyway, this is my first medium format system, So I really want to use this for a long time, isn’t getting a 50Mpx sensor will get obsolete faster? and Why I’m considering a Leica S despite of its 36MPx, its just I love Leica System, it has a great IQ, it performs very very well above the listed MPx on paper.

 

If a 50MP limitation worries you, how do you feel about 37MP? After all a 100MP X1D and GFX is almost guaranteed in 2019 (sensor roadmap). With Leica we have crickets....

 

Gordon

 

Gordon

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Hallo,

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[Ruz]

If a 50MP limitation worries you, how do you feel about 37MP? After all a 100MP X1D and GFX is almost guaranteed in 2019 (sensor roadmap). With Leica we have crickets....

 

Gordon

 

Gordon

 

As I mentioned, In my experience with the Leica Cameras, they all performed above the written megapixels. That’s why I’m considering the S even its only 37MPx