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Leica TL or TL2, which one to buy ?

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I am thinking of buying a TL/TL2 camera.

Currently there is a new one Leica TL titan for 999EUR (1200 USD) at Leica Store Berlin. And I have a good opportunity to buy fairly new Leica TL2 for 1500 EUR (1850 USD). Does it make sense to save money rather then go for TL2 ?

 

I will be using TL 23/2 cron. And for the second lens I am considering using TL 35/1.4 or 60/2,8. I love the idea of a fairly wide lens such as TL 11-23/3,5-4,5 but I am not quite sure whether aperture is sufficient, if there is not enough light available.

 

thanks for your comments and suggestions

Radim

Edited by Rva

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I would suggest to go for the TL2 not only because of the 24 MP sensor. The internal speed of the the TL2 makes life much easier. Also AF is faster.

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I love the idea of a fairly wide lens such as TL 11-23/3,5-4,5 but I am not quite sure whether aperture is sufficient, if there is not enough light available.

 

One good reason to go for the TL2 which has far better high ISO than the TL (around 2 stops).

 

And +1 for what Michael said.

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I your can afford it, I can think of no reason for not choosing the TL2 (unless built in flash is a must-have). Resolution, high ISO performance and speed are the deciding factors IMO.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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Yes, as the others have suggested the TL2 is the better choice. In addition to the comments by the others, the menu system on the TL2 is better organized than on the original T/TL.

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Thanks, I have one more question. Doesn't LT2 have an interval timer built in ? The manual doesn't mention this, but maybe the firmware update allows this function.

Edited by Rva

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Go for the TL2. Much better camera.

 

The only “failing” of the 11-23 is the size, but the image quality is fantastic.

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If it’s your main camera, yes, TL2. But many of us still use our first version T and at today’s used prices, have seen as low as $495 from a Leica dealer, is very worth it. Even though a little slower and 16mp vs 24mp, is an excellent choice. The images are very nice. Look thru the earlier images on this forum if not familiar.

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For main camera the CL might be the better solution, as it does not differ greatly from the TL2 in specifications, but has a better viewfinder solution.

I see the TL2 more as a second camera that will fit in a pocket (wearing the 18 mm Pancake) and be at its place at social gatherings, without branding the user as a photogeek.

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Too many choises  ... bodies, lenses :-) ... and I know what will happen ? Even if I make a choise I will be less satisfied with the result of the choise than I would be I had fewer options to choose from.

But honestly I would like to end up with one body and two TL lenses, 23mm/2 and 35mm/1.4.  60mm macro is also promising.

Edited by Rva

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Ah, yes, the dilemma of making a selection!  We are all plagued by these decisions.  

 

The T lenses are all superb so you will not make a mistake on that end.

 

As Belle 123 writes, the T is a real bargain for performance, though not as capable as the TL2, and as JaapV notes, the CL is probably the best performer comparatively.

 

But, at the end of the day, the differences are not very substantial for casual purposes.  So, just my thoughts: depending upon how much $ is a factor in your decision, if you purchase the T at the current pre-owned prices, if you like the experience, it will be quite easy to upgrade to a better option without much of a penalty financially.

 

Rob

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I strongly suggest to pay a visit to a Leica Store (Berlin) or wherever you will have a chance to hold and operate with those cameras. Carry a card with you and see your sample pictures remembering problems you found when shooting: I guess it might help.

 

As a viewfinder amateur I got a CL, as a strolling photographer 18m/2.8 pancake gives me the chance to have this combination very frequently when I go out; other lenses will join my set but so far I am fine with my choice.

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How important is the EVF to you?

 

In practical terms, using the LCD for me is okay for quick snaps, but if I want to be sure about framing and focus, I prefer an EVF. The blackout on the T drove me to distraction, so I ditched the whole system. If, like many here, you prefer and EVF, get the TL2 or CL. The TL2 (and apparently the CL) is faster and better all round.

 

As for lenses, it’s an APS-C sensor, so lenses will tend to perform longer than expected. I went for the 11-23 and 35. As Jaap comments, when I want a pocketable camera, I take the EVF off and put on a pancake. Great camera.

Edited by IkarusJohn

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I've already had a chance to hold both cameras. Leica TL2 had better ergonomics and felt right in my hands. This is very important to me. The controls were comfortably located in contrast to the CL.

Of course the CL has really nice integrated EVF unlike the TL2, which omitted EVF, though I can buy a Leica Visoflex as an optional extra. As John comments, I alse prefer an EVF.

Regarding lenses, I still hesitate between 11-23 and 23/2. The second one should be 35/1.4.  

 

Photography genres : architectural photography, landscape, portraiture (family), and what I realy like is street photography.

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The 23/2 pancake is highly regarded here, but the 35mm field of view didn't do it for me.  The 18-35 (equivalent) field of view from the 11-23 is really nice, even though the lens is slower than the Summicron.  The zoom is also really versatile.  I agree with you about the 35 Summilux - it's a lovely lens.

 

You might find, though, that size becomes relevant.  The TL2 with EVF and 11-23 zoom or 35 Summilux is not pocketable.  Sometimes, I just like to take off the EVF, and put on a pancake lens and slip the camera into a pocket - I use the 28 Summaron-M with an adapter (42mm equivalent field of view).  The Elmarit-TL 18/2.8 could be another option if you like the 28mm field of view ...

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I have the original T with both the 11-23 on and the 23 in a drawer. I wish I had the 18 instead for size. I may get the CL and the 18.

In any case the 11-23 is outstanding. I used to have a WATE on an M and traded it in to obtain the T plus 11-23. A lighter system too.

 

I agree I think your choice should be a used T for $450 and see how you like the format.

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I would rule out the TL as it is not very much different form the original T which can be had for a much better price.

Now the choice comes down to the T vs TL2. Since I own a T I ask myself this question constantly: "Is upgrading to the TL2 worth 3x the current price of the T?"

So far the answer has been no. IQ would improve but not incredibly so. The lenses I have (23, 11-23, 18-56 & 55-135) are superb so my discretionary funds go towards glass until we see a new body that is a quantum leap over the original T. I'm confident that day will come just not now.

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It’d be a perfectly fine approach to buy a used T, and instead get an additional TL lens (with the money saved on the TL2).

 

Prioritizing the lenses over the enhanced body might give you even more enjoyment if you can get another lens (if you don’t already have a stash of M glass.)

 

The 11-23 is spectacular

35mm TL is special and makes either camera a “real AF Leica”.

That 18mm pancake looks really interesting and makes the T pocketable.

The 18-56 and 23mm lenses are workhorses and outstanding...

 

It’s the lenses that makes this platform outstanding.

 

I still have, and love, my T. The TL2 is a big enough jump in AF and ISO that I will eventually jump, but the T isn’t that bad that I am in a mad rush to get out. (My usage may or may not be different from yours).

 

16mp really is plenty, and it’s easy enough to work with manual focus in low light when the T hunts (more than the TL2 will). There’s plenty of dynamic range to work with in PP, and IQ is great up to 3200 ISO. Startup and AF speed has been improved to be still good enough for me.

 

When you find a good priced used TL2, you can sell the used T without much of a loss I suspect. The same EVF can be reused on the TL2.

 

By taking a “-1 generation” used approach at this point (since the T is that good), you’ll likely save thousands over the long haul as you upgrade bodies.

 

I paid $1,950 for my T and still love it. You can buy one for $500 used, and then buy a used TL2 for $1,000 less than the list price as people move to the CL.

 

(This is if budget is important)

 

Good luck.

Edited by DGP

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One more question. I know that TL2 has offers focus peaking. It makes me wonder whether TL has focus peak as well.

The reason is that I cannot find much information on how different are manual focusing techniques for each T/TL/TL2  particularly for M lenses.

 

Thanks

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One more question. I know that TL2 has offers focus peaking. It makes me wonder whether TL has focus peak as well.

The reason is that I cannot find much information on how different are manual focusing techniques for each T/TL/TL2  particularly for M lenses.

 

Thanks

I’m not sure on the TL, so I’ll let others answer that, but on the TL2 the peaking is very (VERY) subtle. But the EVF is good enough that things snap into focus, so the peaking seems, for me, to be not so important.

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