M7 and SF40 Flash compatibility - good news!

[wlaidlaw]

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I have been advised today by Eberhard Jakob of Leica Technical in Wetzlar as follows: Good news for M7 users. The SF40 Flash has a built in SCA 3502 module emulator and so will work in TTL, A and obviously also M modes on all Leica cameras with TTL and SCA 3502 compatibility plus the digital M, S, SL, Q and APS-C range of cameras, which use pre-flash. This is more than I was expecting, so a "Well Done" to Nissin for getting this 100% correct. The cameras with 3502 compatibility are all the more recent film cameras with TTL metering and the Nikon contact layout accessory shoe. 

 

Wilson

[pico]

That is truly holy sh*t news, Wilson. The extra 3502 emulating module was about $100.

Thanks so much.

Edited January 16, 2018 by pico

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[Photon42]

I have been advised today by Eberhard Jakob of Leica Technical in Wetzlar as follows: Good news for M7 users. The SF40 Flash has a built in SCA 3502 module emulator and so will work in TTL, A and obviously also M modes on all Leica cameras with TTL and SCA 3502 compatibility plus the digital M, S, SL, Q and APS-C range of cameras, which use pre-flash. This is more than I was expecting, so a "Well Done" to Nissin for getting this 100% correct. The cameras with 3502 compatibility are all the more recent film cameras with TTL metering and the Nikon contact layout accessory shoe. 

 

Wilson

 

What a useful, small flash. Thanks for tracking down the information. I may try this actually with the M7.

[pico]

What a useful, small flash. Thanks for tracking down the information. I may try this actually with the M7.

 

Indeed it is the best news I have read. In my experience Leicas TTL sucks. How well the Leica works with the SF40 could be groundbreaking. We shall see, in fact, application.

Edited January 16, 2018 by pico

[wlaidlaw]

Indeed it is the best news I have read. In my experience Leicas TTL sucks. How well the Leica works with the SF40 could be groundbreaking. We shall see, in fact, application.

 

Jac, 

 

I am taking my M7 and 6 rolls of Agfa Precisa CT100 reversal film on my trip to the Caribbean and New Orleans, leaving on Thursday, along with the SF40 Flash and my new CL with the kit and wide zooms. I will post some photos if the flash works as expected. 

 

Wilson

[wattsy]

Handy to know though I no longer have an M7 to take any advantage. Shame about the lack of an auto-thyristor mode. What does the 'A' setting do on this flash?

[A miller]

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will this flash work in HSS mode with the M7?

Also, does the "40" in SF40 mean that it is not meant to work with FLs wider than 40mm?  I would want to use it with a 28mm...

Edited January 21, 2018 by A miller

[wlaidlaw]

will this flash work in HSS mode with the M7?

Also, does the "40" in SF40 mean that it is not meant to work with FLs wider than 40mm?  I would want to use it with a 28mm...

Sadly not due to the limitations of a horizontal fabric blind shutter. Like previous electronic flashes made by Metz on the SCA system, the M7 can only be used at the yellow marked flash speed on the shutter speed dial.

 

Wilson

[A miller]

Sadly not due to the limitations of a horizontal fabric blind shutter. Like previous electronic flashes made by Metz on the SCA system, the M7 can only be used at the yellow marked flash speed on the shutter speed dial.

 

Wilson

 

thanks very much; this is very helpful.

[wattsy]

Also, does the "40" in SF40 mean that it is not meant to work with FLs wider than 40mm?  I would want to use it with a 28mm...

40 is the power, Adam. I forget the units but, as a point of comparison, the full size flashes are usually in the 64 power bracket.

 

Sadly not due to the limitations of a horizontal fabric blind shutter. Like previous electronic flashes made by Metz on the SCA system, the M7 can only be used at the yellow marked flash speed on the shutter speed dial.

 

 

That is not correct, Wilson. I don't know about the SF40 implementation but the Metz 54MZ with SCA3502 foot would do HSS at 1/250-1/1000 with the M7. The horizontal fabric shutter is not a limitation when it comes to the M7 because it has an accurate electronic timing mechanism which syncs correctly with the HSS pulsed output.

[A miller]

40 is the power, Adam. I forget the units but, as a point of comparison, the full size flashes are usually in the 64 power bracket.

 

 

 

That is not correct, Wilson. I don't know about the SF40 implementation but the Metz 54MZ with SCA3502 foot would do HSS at 1/250-1/1000 with the M7. The horizontal fabric shutter is not a limitation when it comes to the M7 because it has an accurate electronic timing mechanism which syncs correctly with the HSS pulsed output.

 

Thanks, Ian.

[wlaidlaw]

 

That is not correct, Wilson. I don't know about the SF40 implementation but the Metz 54MZ with SCA3502 foot would do HSS at 1/250-1/1000 with the M7. The horizontal fabric shutter is not a limitation when it comes to the M7 because it has an accurate electronic timing mechanism which syncs correctly with the HSS pulsed output.

Ian,

 

I am out of the UK at present and cannot check the email i got from Leica technical on the M7 anf the SF40. I seem to recall he said no HSS. I wrongly assumed that was a standard limitation on the SCA 3502 module and M7. I suspect the only way to be certain is to try it and see.

 

Wilson

[wattsy]

I am out of the UK at present and cannot check the email i got from Leica technical on the M7 anf the SF40. I seem to recall he said no HSS. I wrongly assumed that was a standard limitation on the SCA 3502 module and M7. I suspect the only way to be certain is to try it and see.

 

 

You would think that compliance with the SCA 3502 would be sufficient for HSS but it may be that the SF40 implementation of HSS is incompatible with SCA 3502 in hardware terms. I think "try it and see" is indeed the only way to be sure. In truth, I never found HSS very useful when I had the M7 and 54MZ. The pulsed output is quite puny and, in my experience, was only barely sufficient for fill flash.

[wlaidlaw]

You would think that compliance with the SCA 3502 would be sufficient for HSS but it may be that the SF40 implementation of HSS is incompatible with SCA 3502 in hardware terms. I think "try it and see" is indeed the only way to be sure. In truth, I never found HSS very useful when I had the M7 and 54MZ. The pulsed output is quite puny and, in my experience, was only barely sufficient for fill flash.

Ian,

 

I do have a copy of the SF40 manual on my iPad and there is no mention of a pulsed or strobe mode for any camera. I am guessing they felt that the video light, which is quite powerful could fulfill something of the same function. If you had a fast film or lens, I think you could use the video light at higher shutter speeds. I am finding the 100 ISO Agfa reversal film I am currently using, a bit fast for Caribbean sunlight and wish I had brought a polarised filter for it, like I did for the 18-56 on my CL but in 58mm not the 46mm my Summilux III needs.

 

Wilson

Edited January 22, 2018 by wlaidlaw

[wattsy]

Ian,

 

I do have a copy of the SF40 manual on my iPad and there is no mention of a pulsed or strobe mode for any camera.

 

 

Wilson, I'm pretty sure the SF40 is designed to do HSS with compatible cameras – certainly it does in its Nissin i40 guise. I think I read somewhere that it doesn't have a light indicating when it is in HSS mode, it just gets on and does it.

[M9reno]

I suspect the only way to be certain is to try it and see.

Wilson

Wilson, do you have any updates on HSS on the M7 with this flash?

[wlaidlaw]

I have just put a roll of my now precious Agfa Precisa CT100 (it is out of production) into my M7 last week, so I don't want to waste it trying to see if HSS works, especially given the cost of E6 processing in France nowadays (about €25 a roll with postage in both directions). It will have to wait therefore until I finish the Agfa and can put a roll of self process B&W into the camera. The flash does fire at the HSS higher speeds than the yellow flash speed mark 1/250, 1/500 and 1/1000 but I would need to look at a developed film to check that coverage is correct and I am not just getting a bright band on the film. I so rarely use flash with film and then usually my Metz 36-C2 flash (which has the alternatives of hot shoe or PC cable) on Auto/Thyristor setting, with the SF40 normally sitting on my digital CL, that checking for HSS of the 40 on the CL had slipped my mind. 

 

Wilson

 

PS The M7 manual says that for HSS the aperture calculation has to be manual, so I assume TTL does not work in HSS and that users should refer to the flash maker's HSS/manual exposure table. Nissin/Leica don't provide an HSS exposure table or HSS flash guide number in the SF40 manual, so how do I calculate the correct aperture? 

 

PPS - Today's piece of obscure photography knowledge PC in reference to flash connectors more correctly known as an ISO 519 connector, stands for Prontor-Compur, as this shutter maker was the first to use this connector on shutters supplied to Graflex for their press cameras, with Graflash units. Prior to this, electrical flash synchronisation connections were usually two separate pins of different diameters and spacing (called bi-prong) for every flash, camera and shutter maker and rarely compatible. Leica still used this type of connector at the flash end of their CEYOO bulb flashes. 

Edited June 10, 2018 by wlaidlaw

[M9reno]

Thank you, Wilson. I look forward to hearing about how the b&w turns out with HSS on the M7.

 

I ask all this because I’ve never managed to get my Metz 54 MZ3 with SCA 3502 adaptor to give HSS flashes on an M7. (As of two weeks ago, I now have two M7 bodies - both doing the same - so I assume the problem is with the flash gun or the adaptor).

 

It’s not particularly a feature that I need to have, but it’s the niggling feeling that something that should work does not.

 

Thanks again.

[wlaidlaw]

Thank you, Wilson. I look forward to hearing about how the b&w turns out with HSS on the M7.

 

I ask all this because I’ve never managed to get my Metz 54 MZ3 with SCA 3502 adaptor to give HSS flashes on an M7. (As of two weeks ago, I now have two M7 bodies - both doing the same - so I assume the problem is with the flash gun or the adaptor).

 

It’s not particularly a feature that I need to have, but it’s the niggling feeling that something that should work does not.

 

Thanks again.

 

I would not be surprised about anything with the 3502 adapter. Metz were considerably less than honest about its abilities. Back in 2008, I had a long conversation with Metz UK (an organisation called 2020, who were also the agents for Hasselblad) and they assured me after consultation with the factory in Germany (next door to Leica in Solms) that the 3502 V.5 would give full functionality with the M8 on 3502 compatible flashes like the 54 MZ3. I therefore bought a 54 and 3502 V.5. It barely worked at all other than the most basic facilities in TTL mode on the M8. I had an acrimonious correspondence with Metz and followed this up with a visit to their booth at Photokina. "OK" I said, "show me the 3502 working with the MZ54. "Oops your 54 or 3502 must be faulty, wait until we get another pair out of their boxes." Same problems so "your M8 must be faulty". I then go and borrow another M8 from the Leica stand, with identical results. Collapse of stout party at Metz, fulsome apologies and they arranged for a total refund to me for the two items, which I had left with them. In the meantime, I had re-bought an SF24, after I had sold the previous one with my Digilux 2.

 

I can only assume Leica persisted with Metz so long, as they were the only German flash maker, as in the last 15 years, they have been pretty useless both before and since bankruptcy. The MZ36-AF5 I bought for my Olympus EP-5 is plain poor and things like the flash AF illuminator don't work on it. The Leica SF58 is a fairly dire device with the worst user interface that some idiot could design on a really bad day. It would seem that Leica have at last woken up and smelt the coffee, transferring their allegiance to Nissin - good! 

 

Wilson

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[M9reno]

Thanks, Wilson. This is what I think, too, about my Metz flash, and why I’d be keen to switch to the SF40. The ability to do HSS would be really nice if confirmed. I await your eventual news.