ktmrider2 Posted January 6, 2018 Share #1 Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I am looking for a bit of advice here on purchasing either an M10, used M240 or perhaps a Fuji X100F. Now I have been shooting since 1966 primarily as a hobby but photography did pay my way through college in the early 1970's and I spent a couple years as a newspaper photographer. I have owned Leica's since 1975 and presently own both an M2 and M5. I have six M mount lenses and enjoy rangefinders. I owned an M9 for two years but prefer film. Also, I owned the original Fuji X100 and presently the only digital camera I own is an X70. I can get an M240 for about $3000 while a new M10 is more then double that. I don't think I do enough photography to justify the M10 and don't want to eat the depreciation. A new Fuji X100F is $1300. The main advantage to a digital M is using my M mount lenses but the 35mm focal length is my favorite and of course the X100F has a great equivalent. My photography these days is mainly family and travel. As I review what I have written, it seems the Fuji X100F is the logical choice but I look forward to reading your comments. Edited January 6, 2018 by ktmrider2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 Hi ktmrider2, Take a look here M10, M240 or Something Else?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Kwesi Posted January 7, 2018 Share #2 Posted January 7, 2018 How about a Q or CL? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kilmister Posted January 7, 2018 Share #3 Posted January 7, 2018 Go with whatever choice you make. Leica uses a 'Western' logic system of binary choices for most things. Fuji uses an `Eastern' logic which some people love but others hate. I prefer 'Western' logic. Chacun a son goute. Whatever suits you. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidshirts Posted January 7, 2018 Share #4 Posted January 7, 2018 ...don't want to eat the depreciation. Which is why I don't buy new camera equipment anymore. You can get a few month to a year old ones for 30-50% off. The M240 is nice but is already a few years old yet still costs $3-4K. You can get a used X100F for $1000-1100. I own both systems and like enough of each to keep them both. Between the 2 the X100F is the better travel camera. For family, the M240 is better because you have a wider range of focal lengths. If I had an X70 already, since it has a digital teleconverting capability, I'd get the M240 and use my existing lenses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijve044 Posted January 7, 2018 Share #5 Posted January 7, 2018 And there is another big difference between Eastern and Western ergonomics, design and feel !!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted January 7, 2018 Share #6 Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) I am looking for a bit of advice here on purchasing either an M10, used M240 or perhaps a Fuji X100F. Now I have been shooting since 1966 primarily as a hobby but photography did pay my way through college in the early 1970's and I spent a couple years as a newspaper photographer. I have owned Leica's since 1975 and presently own both an M2 and M5. I have six M mount lenses and enjoy rangefinders. I owned an M9 for two years but prefer film. Also, I owned the original Fuji X100 and presently the only digital camera I own is an X70. I can get an M240 for about $3000 while a new M10 is more then double that. I don't think I do enough photography to justify the M10 and don't want to eat the depreciation. A new Fuji X100F is $1300. The main advantage to a digital M is using my M mount lenses but the 35mm focal length is my favorite and of course the X100F has a great equivalent. My photography these days is mainly family and travel. As I review what I have written, it seems the Fuji X100F is the logical choice but I look forward to reading your comments. Given that, get yourself a gently used M 240. Better yet, get yourself a gently used M-P 240. The 2x buffer capacity of the M-P 240 compared to the M 240 is reason enough to sped a little extra, not to mention the sapphire glass rear screen cover. I had an M 240 and upgraded to the M-P 240. The M 240 would sometimes choke on a full buffer, requiring that I remove the battery & reinstall it to cure the lock-up. I would get corrupted files every now and then, which seemed to coincide with the buffer lock-ups. I have never had either problem with my M-P 240. Or you could say "To hell with depreciation" and get an M10 and keep it forever, which would be my approach. Edited January 7, 2018 by Herr Barnack 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsolomon Posted January 7, 2018 Share #7 Posted January 7, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) its all about lenses and you have an investment but im lost in your question, you mention you prefer film but your looking at Digital camera's. based on what your saying i'd stay in the leica family because you have 6 m mount lenses. can i ask what is it that you dont like about the m2 or m5 ? before you go digital you'll need to commit to a computer and post processing - it can be a labor of love - but do you want to do that ? what are you looking to accomplish with a new camera ? i only ask in trying to help - personally i have the m240 , love it a recommend it considering the used availability and price verse value Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted January 7, 2018 Share #8 Posted January 7, 2018 M(typ 240) is a sensible choice for it's best features/money rate (in Leica world of course). The M and M-P second hand is very low now that so many people replaced them with M10. In France, one can find half price (even 40%) sh from new M(typ 240) which is always on last catalog. I don't know about other markets what is the rate. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kilmister Posted January 7, 2018 Share #9 Posted January 7, 2018 @a.noctilux: seems to strike a true note here. Just look at the bargains on eBay from serious sellers (not people with no feedback record). The M-P 240 is a serious pice of kit. It takes a 24MP image, has a superb non-scratch screen and does more than the M10 as it has video capability. I tried an M10 in Brussels. the word 'unimpressed' sums it up, to cut a long story short. OK, the viewfinder has been improved and it provides better ISO handling. That's it. Worth all that extra? I don't think so. I am still in love with my M-P 240 after all the temptation laid before me! A camera is a tool. A lens is an assistant, but you are the photographer. Just choose your tools and assistants wisely. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted January 7, 2018 Share #10 Posted January 7, 2018 I use them (M240/262) along with M10 almost for one year now. In use M10 is better (a bit) in every way the other M, if battery life is not important (but at about 1/2 or 1/3 if EVFof the other can be an issue). Considering files from them, I barely see difference M from M10. ... Another outsider to consider is M-D (typ 262) for film-like experience with digital output. But it's not cheap, very rare to have sh, and anti-digital experience. This M-D is my prefered digital M. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidshirts Posted January 8, 2018 Share #11 Posted January 8, 2018 ... Another outsider to consider is M-D (typ 262) for film-like experience with digital output. But it's not cheap, very rare to have sh, and anti-digital experience. This M-D is my prefered digital M. The M-D is my only digital M and chosen for the very reason mentioned by a.noctilux. The M262 is another option. I saw one in excellent condition for $3k selling locally. If I didn't already have an M-D, I'd have jumped on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 8, 2018 Share #12 Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) its all about lenses and you have an investment but im lost in your question, you mention you prefer film but your looking at Digital camera's. [...] Hehe yes and the OP prefers rangefinders but considers Fuji X100 a logical choice... Not quite clear all that . Just kidding but if the OP prefers rangefinders for his M lenses, the only logical choice is an M camera i would say. Which one? Matter of tastes and budget. Edited January 8, 2018 by lct Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted January 8, 2018 Share #13 Posted January 8, 2018 Lct, Choosing digital M (or other Leica Q, SL, CL, S, T, etc.) is very very dificult. There is so many choices and each has its own reasons. When entering another brand in the equation = NO solution for best choice. As side note: for me if choosing one M is obligatory, I would hang myself . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 8, 2018 Share #14 Posted January 8, 2018 Lct, Choosing digital M (or other Leica Q, SL, CL, S, T, etc.) is very very dificult. There is so many choices and each has its own reasons. When entering another brand in the equation = NO solution for best choice. As side note: for me if choosing one M is obligatory, I would hang myself . No. It is not. You pick one up, and if you like it, you hand over the money. We’re gonna need more rope. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted January 8, 2018 Share #15 Posted January 8, 2018 More ropes . May just use straps for that . Have so many straps to choose from. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 8, 2018 Share #16 Posted January 8, 2018 [...] Choosing digital M (or other Leica Q, SL, CL, S, T, etc.) is very very dificult. There is so many choices and each has its own reasons. [...] Well to each its own but it is very very very very (did i say very?) easy to me. Suffice i to know if one wants a rangefinder or not. If one does, problem solved: no Q, no SL, no CL, no S, no T, no etc , just a digital M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeTexas Posted January 11, 2018 Share #17 Posted January 11, 2018 Get the 240, so you can utilize your lenses -- although I'm not sure why you're going digital again if you've already had an M9 and decided you liked film better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupdefoudre Posted January 11, 2018 Share #18 Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) I just sold my still-under-warranty M-P240 (with all original boxes and such) for $3500. It performs 90% similar to the M10 with equal output. M10 has better viewfinder and a reputed 2-stops less noise which I have not investigated as I almost never shoot over ISO 1600. The M10 body is a bit thinner, like an M6, BUT you already use an M5 so corpulence is not an issue for you! Are these small differences worth $3000? (You can certainly find an M for $3000 but I'd go for the M-P.) More importantly, tho you do not mention what it was about the M9 that threw you off (low ISO capability, perhaps?) you really ought to rent or borrow an M before sinking money into this venture. You do not mention what 6 lenses you have but if you become, or are, a sharpness or bokeh freak your older lenses may not give you the exact look you require. Only use with your current stable of beauties will tell you that. As regards the Fuji side of the equation, I own a couple of these two but they are kinda different animals for me - not inferior beasts, different. So, as you already own Leica lenses why not join the fray in Leica-World! Edited January 11, 2018 by coupdefoudre Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmrider2 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share #19 Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) I owned the original X100 and presently own the X70. Honestly, I think both are superior travel cameras, especially as the X100F overcomes most of the quirks of the original X100 but there are advantages to interchangeable lenses. I own M lenses in focal lengths from 21mm to 135mm. And thought the M9 was a great camera but a bit limited as first generation technology. My last international trip was to northern England and involved a short walk of 192 miles (C2C trail) and even though film Leicas were packed, the weather and lighting were so bad most days only the X70 was in the pack. Why pack a heavier film camera if something like the X70 is available? And when you are hiking 15 to 20 miles per day gaining and losing a couple thousand feet of elevation in wind and rain (rained 13 out of 16 days of walking), something simple and high tech (digital) set to full auto makes photography almost fun. Honestly, the purpose of the trip was to complete the C2C and photography was secondary. And I would argue that unless conditions are ideal, a traveling photographer will never be able to compete with images from a local because one has very limited time before being forced to move on. And you can have the latest and greatest camera made but if the lighting sucks (as it did on this trip) most of the landscape photos will suck equally. I have a couple friends that shoot for NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC and they refer to something they call "god light" but that is another issue. As much as I prefer film (especially b&w), let's be honest and admit that technology has some advantages. Digital allows varying ISO from one photo to the next, color or b&w and even more then 36 exposures on one SD card. Because I prefer film (due to my age) does not mean I am blind to the advantages of digital and last time I looked we can own both. Using the recommendations from this thread and some research, I have decided on either a M240 or MP240. Tamarkin has both for either $3200 or $4000 in EXC++. So thanks for the input from everyone. And my next trip involves hiking in Ireland in late April as I am planning to attend the LHSA weekend in Santa Fe, NM which will be reached by my favorite means of travel: motorcycle. But the C2C trail kicked my rear and I have learned my lesson. The trip will only be for 90 miles, not 192 and I will probably be carrying a digital Leica with 35/90mm lenses. And by the way, I am almost located in New Mexico (actually El Paso, Texas). Edited January 12, 2018 by ktmrider2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted January 12, 2018 Share #20 Posted January 12, 2018 For 1300$ I could get slightly used if not new Canon 6D and couple of new compact AF primes. It is 35mm digital, not so large DSLR which might leave any Fuji camera in dust for family pictures, but for some strange reasons I prefer slow to focus and bad on high ISO M-E with primitive Leica TTL flash. Because not Canon, nor Fuji could gives images this character. It is combination of Leica sensor (would it be M8, M9, M240 and M10) and Leica lens. And my M-E is due to sensor change... It is the Leica curse, really. If I could only force myself to take any Fuji in my hands... And not only this. I compared X100F thousands of pictures available online with thousands of pictures online from .... M8. Because it was in the same price range. And I went with M8 just as second digital M camera. Sold it later on to purchase Summicron 50 IV. And it is the Leica curse again. It is not very sharp lens for modern digital standards, but the way it renders family portraits with M-E... Every Leica digital M pictures I looked at they are not Sony, Fiji, Canonikon. But nobody cares in family how Leica pictures looks, it must be sharp, good colors and exposure. Nobody cares if it is taken with Leica or else. It is the Leica curse on me. If you could use Fuji, run! Run before the Leica curse gets on you.... Run! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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